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Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ryguytilidie on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @03:51PM (#15502341)
Any time you apply for a credit card or other form of credit, you generally have to give your income.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by gfosco on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @03:59PM (#15502412)
It's much worse than that... The recent "The Work Number" incident showed they shared access to your entire paycheck history, in detail.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by wavefunction on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @04:06PM (#15502466)
at the granular level of per paycheck, even
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ericd on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @04:38PM (#15502782)
So they're buying it from ADP?
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by falcolas on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @04:56PM (#15502983)
Or getting it automatically from the employers in exchange for having access to it for new hires.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ericd on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @07:57PM (#15504345)
I doubt most employers would go for that, but I suppose it's possible. More importantly, though, it'd also be much harder than getting it from a payroll provider.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by gehwartzen on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @09:20PM (#15504704)
According to wiki they have 225 million employment records and according to The Work Number they are used by 82% of Fortune 500 employers.

Then they turn around and sell all that data while telling the participating companies what a wonderful service they are providing them by offloading this task from traditional HR.

It's crazy.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ericd on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @10:41PM (#15505095)
Oh, wow, that is crazy.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by gehwartzen on Thursday October 19, 2017 @01:20PM (#15509717)
Prepare to be even more shocked. Here is a 'sample' of the EDR report you can request from The Work Number containing all the information that they have on you and may or may not be giving out (or selling to the highest bidder):

https://www.theworknumber.com/samples/The-Work-Number-Employ...

As you can see its much more than 'just' your salary. It includes (amongst other things):

Union Affiliation; Salary breakdown (Base, OT, Commission, Bonus); Dates of pay increases; Medical Insurance (coverage, Policy #, Provider name, Annual cost); Any Workers Comp claims; Breakdown of your paycheck (401k contribution, taxes payed, garnishments, etc)

Just imagine the national outrage if some employer was shown to be directly selling this information to someone about their own employees. Yet a third party is doing just that and many companies are complicit. It is absolutely outrageous!

'hmmm maybe I don't want to hire Joe Shmo, after all he did join a union in the past. He might try to unionize our plant'

'looks like Joe also has some garnishments, doesn't sound like someone we want on our team. Probably has a troubled past.'

'well looks like Joe made 70k last year, but a lot of that was from working OT. I think we can get away with offering him 60k and promising him a lot of OT "opportunities"'

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by majormajor on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @04:22PM (#15502602)
Proving my income (with paystubs or a W2) separately from the credit report the bank ran always gave me the impression that the credit agencies didn't have that info. Nor do I ever recall seeing it in the reports I got from them.

Welp.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by pravda on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @07:17PM (#15504123)
>you generally have to give your income.

Well, you certainly don't have to give your "real" income. Aspirational income is fine.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by chc on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @08:03PM (#15504376)
Wouldn't applying for credit based on "aspirational" finances be fraud?
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by prostoalex on Thursday October 19, 2017 @12:08AM (#15505403)
Not a lawyer, but for major credit lines lenders would generally want to see a few pay stubs and even tax returns, so seems like they’re using the data from the application form as a ballpark figure anyways.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by emodendroket on Thursday October 19, 2017 @10:57AM (#15508457)
Not a lawyer, but they left their door unlocked, so I think it should be legal to just walk off with their stuff.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by pravda on Thursday October 19, 2017 @01:58AM (#15505752)
Well, if you phoney up some W2s on your laser printer to apply for a mortgage, that might be a problem.

But (on credit card applications) I've always put a 6-figure income in when asked. Even as a college student with an income of $0.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by astura on Thursday October 19, 2017 @10:09AM (#15507984)
FFS, that's called "fraud." Providing false information on a credit application is a criminal offense. Are you going to go to jail for it? Probably not, as long as you pay your bills. But it's 100% fraud and illegal and you can go to jail for it and people have.

Also, your accounts would be closed if they found out that you lied on your application. American Express, in particular, is known to conduct financial reviews and shut down accounts who can't prove their income.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ada1981 on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @09:35PM (#15504769)
It generally asked your household income. This means many 18 year olds can report 6 or even 7 figure household incomes.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by chc on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @10:20PM (#15505008)
I wouldn't call that an aspirational income, though — would you? That's just your real household income. It's also not an option for most adults, who are almost all older than 18.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by darklajid on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @10:22PM (#15505016)
Putting aside the household income for a moment: "Many" being able to report 6 figure incomes seems quiiiiite a stretch to me, 7 seems insane.

Do you have a source for this? Or can you define "many" some more?

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by sokoloff on Thursday October 19, 2017 @07:36AM (#15507006)
A million or more 18-20 year olds could no doubt truthfully report 6-figure household income. To me, that's "many".

(Slightly over a quarter of households in the US have a household income over $100K as reported on tax returns. Household income for the purposes of credit application can be meaningfully higher than for adjusted gross income tax return concerns.)

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by mmcclellan on Thursday October 19, 2017 @09:10AM (#15507529)
That's actually an interesting stat. If there are ~115 million US households and 20% have > $100,000 income, that is ~23 million households. If 18-24 year olds make up ~9.5% of the population, and we 'assume' they are evenly distributed in these households, then this statement (well 18-24) could be true.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by sokoloff on Thursday October 19, 2017 @09:22AM (#15507616)
Per this: https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator-201...

it's 26.3% of households with incomes over $100K. I saw another estimate of 125 million households, so it could well be ~33 million households with >=$100K household income.

(I'm not so much quibbling with numbers as trying to get across that "it's a lot of people")

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by astura on Thursday October 19, 2017 @10:10AM (#15507996)
No you can't. The CARD Act of 2009 explicitly forbids this. You can't include anyone else's income if you are under 21.

Even after you're 21 you're supposed to only include someone else's income if you have access to it. If your parents don't give you a stipend then you aren't supposed to include their income.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ada1981 on Friday October 20, 2017 @06:54PM (#15519648)
Thanks!
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by emodendroket on Thursday October 19, 2017 @09:31AM (#15507678)
You'll be in a lot of trouble if you ever default and provided "aspirational" income, or at least that is the impression I get from the text that accompanies such inquiries.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by astura on Thursday October 19, 2017 @10:23AM (#15508133)
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/buffalo/press-releases/201...

>ROCHESTER, NY—U.S. Attorney William J. Hochul, Jr. announced today that David P. Gaylord, 51, of Rochester, New York, pleaded guilty to bank loan application fraud before the U.S. District Judge Charles J. Siragusa. The charge carries a maximum penalty of 30 years in prison a fine of $1,000,000.

>Assistant U.S. Attorney Tiffany H. Lee, who is handling the case, stated that in 2006, while residing in the Western District of New York, the defendant submitted various credit card applications to Advanta Corp., Bank of America, and Family First Federal Credit Union. Gaylord knowingly provided false information regarding his income in order to obtain lines of credit from the banks and credit union. The defendant indicated that his income was anywhere between $90,000 to $122,000 when, in 2006, he reported to the Internal Revenue Service that his income was approximately $12,488. Gaylord ended up leaving outstanding balances on the various lines of credit and filed for bankruptcy.

Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by rconti on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @05:00PM (#15503033)
I've only given fairly vague numbers on these things. Can't say it's hurt my creditworthiness.
Re:New law bans California employers from asking applicants ... by ryanlol on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @06:21PM (#15503757)
You don't need to be honest in your applications, just consistent. The data you enter becomes "the truth" in their system.