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Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by acdha on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:09PM (#15478276)
Both services are subsidizing their rides significantly, so while I think transit does need to work on improvements it’s important to remember that the comparison is currently unfair and will change when investors start looking for profits.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by criddell on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:11PM (#15478292)
You don't think the public transportation systems are subsidized?
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by untog on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:27PM (#15478393)
At a certain point the comparison breaks down.

Yes, public transit is subsidised. But it isn't subsidised in such a way that it is expected to eventually become self sustaining - tax-payer funding is expected to continue in perpetuity.

That's not the case with Uber and Lyft. VCs are subsiding their rides on the expectation that eventually the company will dominate the market enough to not require subsidy any more.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by criddell on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:45PM (#15478517)
> That's not the case with Uber and Lyft.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I wonder if maybe cities should run light rail and buses along the most used routes then subsidize private companies (like Lyft and Uber) to service people outside of those routes. I used to ride #43 Taylor's Ferry in Portland twice a day and I was sometimes on the bus by myself or with three or four other people. I bet it would have been far cheaper for the city to put us in a cab (this was before Uber) than to pay a driver to operate a giant, empty bus. I bet the bus was way worse from an emissions point of view as well.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by untog on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:50PM (#15478553)
There's definitely something to that. IIRC some municipalities partnered with Lyft on "last mile" transport from regional train services. Makes a lot more sense than park and ride, but I'm not sure what ever happened to it.

I'd argue that there's no reason transport agencies couldn't do this kind of intelligent routing/hailing themselves. The problem is usually that government is actively punished when they don't go for the cheapest possible alterative, so rather than hire a team of skilled, innovative developers, they out source to a lowest cost bidder. As a result it looks like private enterprise is the only place where innovation happens. It's a shame.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by nhaehnle on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:57PM (#15478969)
IIRC, Switzerland actually has some on-demand minibus routes. Basically, you have to call a number N minutes in advance, and the minibus will show up. This could easily be appified as well (and maybe it already is today, it's been a while).
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by acdha on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:25PM (#15478790)
I think that deserves consideration, along with the related category of access-impaired riders. In a major city it might easily be cheaper to pay for years of door to door service than make an ADA retrofit for a subway station in an old building.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by jogjayr on Sunday October 15, 2017 @06:03PM (#15479580)
Why can't the city just run smaller vehicles, like minivans or airport shuttles, on less popular routes? Sub-contracting may be cheaper for the city but would make for terrible PR. Since driver salaries are the biggest cost, the only way private companies could make these routes profitable is by doing the very same things Lyft/Uber are criticized for: low wages, no benefits etc.

EDIT: Reading some of the other replies, I suppose making rides on these routes on-demand instead of fixed timetable services may change the economics of less popular routes.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by acdha on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:31PM (#15478420)
Yes, just like the roads. The difference is that civil infrastructure isn’t expected to be profitable and there isn’t the equivalent of an investor who will decide that next quarter needs to be profitable.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by hyperbovine on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:37PM (#15478465)
Wha? You're putting words in his/her mouth for the sake of appearing arch. Public transit is subsidized and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, because that's what the owners (the public) want. Far less clear is how many more unicorns the owners of Lyft and Uber are willing to toss into the furnace before they starting wanting to see some actual ROI. Anecdotally, both services have gotten way more expensive in my area recently.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by yardie on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:17PM (#15478332)
Mass transit is already subsidized and yet they are unable to make it work. Only one is subsidizing to gain ridership. As I’ve told friends and family it’s still cheaper than owning a car. If that equation changes I’ll re-evaluate our habits.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by hyperbovine on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:39PM (#15478472)
Mass transit works amazingly well in Europe, particularly in the north.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by majidazimi on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:05PM (#15478666)
I'm a foreign student in Germany, living in a small city with 200K population. Public transportation is just fascinating compared to size/population of the city. More than ten tram lines. Countless number of buses.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by sliverstorm on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:03PM (#15478654)
What do you mean "unable to make it work". Why should buses/train/subway have to be profitable? Roads for your car sure aren't.

Every dollar we subsidize public transit, is far more than a dollar saved on road repair & upgrades.

Just think of buses. Two to three axles. If all the riders took cars instead, that's one hundred axles. Road wear is a function of weight, for which axles is a proxy, and obviously one hundred axles is a lot more traffic demanding road upgrades as well.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by yardie on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:36PM (#15478861)
I'm referring to the US as this is specifically a US problem. Our best system New York's MTA has frequent outages. While the trains are new the tracks and switches are decaying at an incredible rate.

My current city, Miami, the city is looking at reducing mass transit service [0]. After already approving a 1-cent tax to expand service MDTA reneged and used the increase to pay for existing issues (fair enough, it needed fixing). Now, we're all paying slight more for a still terrible system.

At this point I think the solution just may have to come from the open market, obviously the govt run entity is unable/unwilling to do the job.

[0] http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/a...

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by acdha on Sunday October 15, 2017 @05:22PM (#15479376)
> While the trains are new the tracks and switches are decaying at an incredible rate.

This is a key misunderstanding: the systems are performing as designed but the normal maintenance was skimped on for years and now we're seeing the consequences of years of fiscal “conservatism” punting the problem down the road for future generations to deal with.

If we were to use that logic to say we should stop doing things, we'd also be shutting down most roads, bridges, water systems, schools, etc. because those have the same problems due to the large number of people who don't want to pay for the things they use. Every year, https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org will have a low rating for most U.S. infrastructure and every year a key part of the political system will shrug, say “starve the beast”, and plan on being dead / elsewhere before things break down too much more.

Privatization often makes this problem worse because all of those costs remain unmodified and there's a need to generate profits which requires either increasing prices or reducing service. That can be acceptable for many businesses but cutting infrastructure tends to have significant economic ripple effects since it affects your ability to participate in the economy.

Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by tigershark on Sunday October 15, 2017 @05:52PM (#15479509)
Am I misunderstanding something or are you really complaining about a 1 cent tax? I wish I could have any service paying as little as 1 cent over my current taxes. Hell, I'll happily pay 10£ even for a shitty service probably..
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by yardie on Sunday October 15, 2017 @06:48PM (#15479780)
This is one cent (as in 1%) sales tax. And it is being applied to 1 city service, transit. If all other city services did this you can expect your taxes to be in the 30-50 percent range.
Re:New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior by acdha on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:33PM (#15478434)
We subsidize everything to varying degrees – frequently “unable to make it work” means “would be working if we subsidized it at the same level we subsidize roads, gas, etc.”