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Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by kibwen on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @09:51PM (#15455099)
I think you're vastly overestimating China's cultural homogeneity. 30% of the population (so, a greater number than the population of the U.S.) doesn't even speak Mandarin. Just like in India, regional loyalties are very strong despite modern attempts to unify; see the continuing efforts to wipe out Cantonese, a language with 60 million speakers in China and that is mutually unintelligible with Mandarin: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-is-forcing-its-biggest-... . And this isn't happening in some backwater part of the country; in addition to Cantonese being the official language of Hong Kong, Canton (a.k.a. Guangdong) is the most populous province in the country, and the location of Shenzhen itself.
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by est on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @10:08PM (#15455157)
> Cantonese, a language with 60 million speakers in China

Most of cantonese speakers can speak mandarin as well.

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by kibwen on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @10:51PM (#15455336)
That doesn't refute my point; most French Canadians can also speak English, and yet French Canadian retains its own distinct subculture, so distinct that Quebec has repeatedly voted to secede from Canada. Language is merely one very obvious indicator of cultural heterogeneity, and the point remains that China is not nearly as culturally unified as the typical Westerner understands (which should not be so hard to believe; it's a country with a freaking billion people!).
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by CoolGuySteve on Thursday October 12, 2017 @07:39AM (#15457236)
> Quebec has repeatedly voted to secede from Canada.

I believe your point may be refuted by the fact that you state outright lies like this whopper here.

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by y4mi on Thursday October 12, 2017 @10:12AM (#15458031)
seriously? it took me 1 second to google and confirm its truth. or is 1995 too long ago for kids these days?

also, refuting one argument does not shoot down unrelated arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by CoolGuySteve on Thursday October 12, 2017 @12:56PM (#15459383)
They did not vote to succeed and there was only one referendum.
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by y4mi on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:43PM (#15459734)
I understood the GP argument as "having voted on the issue", not "having voted to leave". The former implies that a significant portion of the population want independence.

and i'm not sure i understand you correctly, but the very first sentence in the wikipedia link says that the 1995 referendum was the second one... this [1] was the first.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1980

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by dilemma on Thursday October 12, 2017 @08:18AM (#15457410)
Your point is completely refuted. You never had one since it was based on made up facts.
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by kibwen on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:30AM (#15458697)
Feel free to cite a source and enlighten me, then. :)
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by PakG1 on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @11:51PM (#15455537)
>> I think you're vastly overestimating China's cultural homogeneity. 30% of the population (so, a greater number than the population of the U.S.) doesn't even speak Mandarin.

Mandarin is basically the Han dialect of Chinese. The Han people are 92% of the population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese

In addition, Mandarin is the standard language used in most or all public schools. I volunteered multiple times in an area where the majority of people are the Yi minority group (location: Zhaojue in southern Sichuan). The Yi people's language doesn't even share the same characters as Chinese. When I first heard their language, I swear it sounded like it was from Africa, a lot of similar phonemes. But even there, they used Mandarin in the public schools.

>> And this isn't happening in some backwater part of the country; in addition to Cantonese being the official language of Hong Kong, Canton (a.k.a. Guangdong) is the most populous province in the country, and the location of Shenzhen itself.

Shenzhen is a city built on top of a fishing village in the 80s that had very few incumbent people. Most of the people who live in Shenzhen come from outside of Shenzhen and never spoke Cantonese. As such, they have no choice but to speak Mandarin to each other, as that's the only common language out of all the people who come from all the other provinces. The fact of the matter is that I cannot remember the last time I heard Cantonese in Shenzhen. Guangzhou has a lot of Cantonese, but that's because there were a lot of Cantonese people in Guangzhou from the beginning, as Guangzhou is the capital of Guangdong (the Canton province). Shenzhen's economy is forecast to outpace Hong Kong's economy, though Hong Kong will by no means become insignificant. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-05/as-shenzh...

If Cantonese is dying, it's a natural death brought on by social and economic factors, not a forced death. Mandarin has been the standard language used in public schools since the days of the Republic of China, China's attempt at democracy, in 1912. This is not some kind of new malicious strategy brought on by the modern Communist government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Modern_Standard_Chi...

So many factors are making it a natural death for Cantonese. My Cantonese speaking friends agree with this.

Source: I live in Shenzhen

edit: formatting

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by deadfoxygrandpa on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:33AM (#15455880)
well I live in Shenzhen too (live and work in Nanshan) and I hear Cantonese and Teochew on the streets daily. You can hear people speaking Cantonese all over the place: in markets, in office building elevators, restaurants, etc. In certain areas you can hear tons of Teochew being spoken as well (most electronics markets and wet markets seem to be run by people from Chaoshan), which is another regional culture with a strong identity that's strongly resisting getting wiped out.
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by khc on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @11:58PM (#15455566)
Mandarin is _NOT_ the Han dialect of Chinese. Each region has its own dialect and while they are not taught in school (mostly due to central government's policy), regional dialects are often spoken at home.

Source: I grew up in Hong Kong and have relatives in mainland China

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by PakG1 on Thursday October 12, 2017 @12:19AM (#15455645)
Sorry, to be clear, I said that Mandarin is basically the Han dialect. It is true that a lot of people interchange the names Hanyu, Guoyu, and Putonghua, though they are not exactly the same thing. Just asked my co-worker about this to be sure, he said a lot of people consider Hanyu to be Putonghua even though it's not.

It's like me telling a Chinese person that Canadian English is basically American English, even though it isn't.

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by taejo on Thursday October 12, 2017 @06:19AM (#15456904)
It's closer to saying "English is the European dialect of Indo-European". Cantonese, Shanghainese, Taiwanese are all languages spoken primarily by Han people, they are all Han dialects. Of course Mandarin has a priviledged position among them, but that priviledged position has not much to do with the Han people, since it shares that with all the others.

EDIT: it may well be the case that people use "Hanyu" (literally, Han language) as a synonym for "Guoyu" (lit. national language, the Taiwanese version of Modern Standard Mandarin [MSM]) or "Putonghua" (lit. common speech, the PRC version of MSM). "Han language" is a poor English translation for "Hanyu" if that's what you mean.

Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by dilemma on Thursday October 12, 2017 @08:16AM (#15457399)
Shenzhen speaks Mandarin, not Cantonese. Cantonese is more common in Guangzhou but everyone there also speaks Mandarin. Mandarin is as much the first language of China as English is in the US.
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by a_c on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:28AM (#15455869)
I believe the 60 millions of so cantonese speakers includes the chinese over the world where many of them are from Canton
Re:Western news about China depends on intrepid Chinese ‘new... by kibwen on Thursday October 12, 2017 @02:36AM (#15456080)
I understand that Cantonese is exceedingly popular among the Chinese diaspora, particularly in the US, but some quick searching implies that the number of worldwide speakers is closer to 70 million. The article that I linked specifically qualifies their 60 million figure with "in China", though they don't state what their source is.