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Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by roblabla on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @05:34PM (#15445494)
Next time I change laptop (which will probably happen soon, my laptop is also a 2007 hardware), it will be a Librem 13 from Purism. I want to send money to a company that cares about this issue, and Purism has demonstrated they do multiple times already[0][1].

I know purism is just neutralizing IME, so it's the same as this, but they're the best solution right now, and I hope that by supporting them, I participate in a clear message to the industry that I don't want their undocumented blackbox on my hardware. Who knows ? Maybe one of the major players will take the hint and try to remove them, or document them. Or maybe a new player will displace them.

[0]: https://puri.sm/posts/reverse-engineering-the-intel-manageme...

[1]: https://puri.sm/posts/neutralizing-intel-management-engine-o...

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by miles on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:42PM (#15446175)
See Tobias Platen's "Why I won’t buy the Purism Librem" for why he prefers Libreboot: http://blogs.fsfe.org/tobias_platen/2015/09/22/why-i-wont-bu...
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by roblabla on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @04:00AM (#15448033)
The alternative presented is a laptop with 2008 hardware. Sure, I can do that. But that's not sending a message to the industry. That's just living in a bubble, while still giving Lenovo some money. Don't get me wrong, I love minifree and what they're doing, I just don't believe it to be a viable alternative. There are lots of people who can't or won't use outdated hardware. Purism is a sane solution to this problem.

Also, Purism is taking steps to get coreboot to run on their laptops[1][2], so the graph on this website isn't even right anymore.

And I just found out that, interestingly, the T400 and X200 both come with IME. The only difference is that the AMT can be fully disabled on older intel chipsets[0].

[0]: https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/gm45_remove_me.html

[1]: https://puri.sm/posts/coreboot-on-the-librem-13-v2-part-1/

[2]: https://puri.sm/posts/coreboot-on-the-skylake-librems-part-2...

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by ynniv on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @09:49AM (#15449709)
First, Lenovo doesn't receive any money when you buy a used laptop. Second, using a ten year old laptop sends a much stronger message than buying a new, slightly alternative laptop. Third, security is like history - if you want to get it right, you have to wait for rigors of time to reveal the truth. We think that Purism is at least as secure as Libreboot, but we know a lot more about ten year old hardware than something fresh off the fab in China.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by lurker12390879 on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @10:46AM (#15450183)
Coreboot does run on their laptops, but it has too many blobs to make the Libre crowd happy.

Purism has mentioned they may take interest in porting the rest of the way to libreboot someday.

The real issue too is that a lot of naysayers dislike Purism because they provide modern competition to people selling Librebooted laptops.

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by fghtr on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:07PM (#15446040)
I think, if your goal is fully free laptop, you should consider Libreboot https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/. The IME has been fully removed from it.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by Foxboron on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @06:40PM (#15445916)
Are they actually selling laptops without IME? It seems to me like they have published how it can be removed, not that they are selling products with IME disabled.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by xwvvvvwx on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:06PM (#15446037)
They describe what they do here: https://puri.sm/learn/avoiding-intel-amt/

If I read it right they do the same as described in the gentoo wiki page (get rid of every module except the bring up).

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by Foxboron on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:14PM (#15446068)
Right, so they select HW so the remote access isn't available. Good, but this doesn't remove IME.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by xwvvvvwx on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:29PM (#15446123)
From that page:

we take the extra precaution of neutralizing the ME itself (removing everything but the “hardware initialization” module)

Am I missing something?

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by Foxboron on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:37PM (#15446161)
No, you seem to be correct. I'm just being highly sceptical of the puri.sm folks because of their marketing.

It seems like their current devices are sold with me_cleaner being ran, along with removing several "fuses". Which is pretty good.

I'm still unsure if buying these laptops actually sends a signal that this isn't OK. Intel gets their money in the end.

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by zanny on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:38PM (#15446916)
You can't buy a mass-market computer that doesn't have either an obvious backdoor or proprietary firmware right now, except for the one Chromebook that Libreboot supports.

And even then, your RAM has proprietary code running on it (I'm not aware of any DDR4 that doesn't have embedded SoCs for initialization, none of that is done in CPU firmware anymore), your hard drives can have up to entire embedded SoCs with proprietary code running on them, and there isn't an unencumbered 802.11AN wireless chip in existence. The only bright side to that is none of that hardware has system-wide access the way these backdoor coprocessors do.

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by zdkl on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @10:13AM (#15449902)
Who needs system wide compromise when you can read what's hitting both RAM and persistent memory.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by roblabla on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @03:47AM (#15447972)
I doubt we can get Intel to change directly. Most people don't buy from them directly anyway. My belief is that we can get OEMs to consider this a serious issue, and have them turn into a market pressure on CPU manufacturers. After all, OEM's life would be simpler if Intel simply didn't put the IME that everyone wants removed.
Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by Foxboron on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @04:16AM (#15448104)
>After all, OEM's life would be simpler if Intel simply didn't put the IME that everyone wants removed.

Most people don't know that IME exists, they won't know either. You won't see an uproar from the consumers, because there are few that care (us). You are better off informing the general public in my opinion.

EDIT: I'd actually put money into RISC-V products instead.

Re:Disabling the Intel Management Engine by bo1024 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @09:28PM (#15446657)
Awesome and I applaud that decision. I think you'll be very happy with the quality.