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Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by linuxps2 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:13PM (#15443504)
As someone who ran highly kritikal affs and Ks on neg - the rules aren't set, they are up to you to define in the round. Sure, you could get a judge that is super pro-policy and hates anything critical but those were fairly few and far between. If someone is trying to spread you or put an independent voting issue on something inane, critique that entire style of debate. Merely dropping an argument isn't enough to lose you the round - unless it was a fairly big IVI.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by dlubarov on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:34PM (#15443696)
If anyone unfamiliar is interested to see what LD critiques look like, here are a few of my old cases:

AC normativity K: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RTv2KtA_XBhkRQeHmC69BfTi...

NC analytic philosophy K: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zoPxDoFEu7-paUsK5GhTKyW6...

NC speed K: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xXKYu8K4DX5DoVVnLlPxmPMf...

Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by mplewis on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @06:06PM (#15445725)
Thanks for sharing! These brought back memories.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by RSchaeffer on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:30PM (#15444665)
Do you still have your replies to the speed K? I can't find them in my backfiles
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by dlubarov on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:51PM (#15444818)
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by RSchaeffer on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @05:25PM (#15445435)
Thanks Lubarov :)
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by mathperson on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:22PM (#15444090)
lol the mountain represent /\
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by RSchaeffer on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:29PM (#15444654)
yee
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by pavel_lishin on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:36PM (#15443711)
> If someone is trying to spread you or put an independent voting issue on something inane, critique that entire style of debate.

Doing this in LD might fly, but in CX it's basically an obnoxious way to throw the round. (Which I did back in high school, repeatedly, with as much success as you'd expect.)

Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by linuxps2 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:41PM (#15443759)
By CX I assume you mean policy and no, it's really effective. I did it for 4 years and it was rare if my partner and I didn't place and one of us nearly always won a speaker award.

Nuke War impacts? yeah, I'm running Compassion Fatigue K. On AFF you better believe I'm running a kritikal case with 'dismantling patriarchy through discussion' as my primary voting issue against the ridiculous Mead cards the neg was going to bring out.

All I'm saying is that it certainly can be effective as this is what I did and found great success both locally and in the national circuit

Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by pavel_lishin on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:56PM (#15443855)
I guess I was a much shittier debater than I thought, and I absolutely was not a good debater. I don't think I ever saw this type of thing work - maybe our schools were just in completely different skill tiers.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by Gaelan on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:05PM (#15443944)
Also judges in different circuits are probably more tolerant of different things.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by ngoldbaum on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:28PM (#15446892)
It totally depends on what the judging pool looks like. In a different state your strategy would have worked fine.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by linuxps2 on Thursday October 12, 2017 @07:31PM (#15462212)
Yeah my experience was mostly limited to the national circuit and GA where the judges were typically WestGA, Emory, or UGA debaters (or debate coaches) trying to make extra money on weekends when they didn't have a college tournament
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by throwawayknecht on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:32PM (#15444676)
This is the exact opposite of my (now two decade old) experience. We had a team (honestly, one guy) who did the most ridiculous meta Ks and the LDers were almost scornful of it. Their debates were ideological and drew from a much wider range of sources, but there was virtually no meta involved.
Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by anigbrowl on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @05:37PM (#15445521)
As someone who ran highly kritikal affs and Ks on neg

If debate is meant to be preparation for participation in a polity, why would you adhere to exclusionary jargon and obscure proceduralism? Of course it's fun to be an insider, as in any other sphere of nerd endeavor, but this is the rhetorical equivalent of bodybuilding with the help of steroids. Yes, it is satisfying to the competitors, but at the expense of comprehensibility to everyone else.

As a non-American who loved debate growing up (but in a more old-fashioned and qualitative policy forum style), the first time I saw policy debate on TV I almost threw up in disgust. This kind of thing is why voter participation rates are so low and people hate politicians (sweeping assertions that I have no intention of substantiating today, by the way).

The research and critical thinking aspects of this are absolutely valuable skills to learn. But the more technical it becomes, the more you're applying the logic of industrial production to qualitative argument, to the point of losing your audience completely. I suggest that this emphasis on point-scoring reduces the incidence of critical thinking in the population as a whole, and offer as an analogy the Selectorate Theory model of Bueno de Mesquita & Smith in The logic of political survival.

In brief, this theory argues that per-capita rewards for members of a selectorate (group which chooses political leaders) diminish as the size of the group initially expands but gradually increase again and exceed the original limit as the selectorate comes to comprise a greater portion of the electorate.

As far as debate is concerned, it is thus more fun at first to win the approval of a small number of insiders through gamesmanship than to please a larger general audience, but as you are able to successfully appeal to larger audiences the fun factor increases again and will eventually exceed the original maximum.

Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by URSpider94 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @11:47PM (#15447141)
If well-formed and well-delivered argumentation is what you are looking for, then your sport is extemporaneous speaking (extemp, for short). You get 30 minutes to prepare a 7-minute speech on a topic provided on the spot. There’s no real benefit to speaking quickly and you are judged on both the quality of your arguments and your presentation style.

A lot of debaters cross over and do extemp on off weekends.

Re:The Corrosion of High School Debate by nunez on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:18PM (#15443541)
Awww man the rounds with folks that ran Policy k’s were fun. Many didn’t do a good job of it, but those that did, oh man.