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Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by kayoone on Monday October 09, 2017 @01:52AM (#15431811)
I went to a Deutsche Bank Hackathon last year in Berlin where they announced opening up their apis. https://developer.db.com/

They touted it as being innovative and open but in the end all Banks are required to open up when PSD2 comes into effect next year. Seeing this release, maybe they have honest intentions for being more open, but it being Deutsche i still have my doubts.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by rjzzleep on Monday October 09, 2017 @03:51AM (#15432144)
I used to walk around other countries bragging about German online banking, given that we have a standard that has been iterated upon (HBCI/FinTS) over decades and you can pretty use any online banking software with any bank.

A few years have passed since then and most germans banks are still the same. Meanwhile you get instant wire transfers in a few countries.

When I think Deutsche Bank and innovation, I think of my phone calls with Deutsche Bank about disappearing money and them telling me that I shouldn't be surprised if the online banking doesn't actually reflect my real balance and 3 day same country wire transfers. A friend of mine has a consulting company that claims that theyre trying to change their internal structures though.

I think of shitty support and paper faxes because of "security". The latter might actually be a prevalent problem in german society though.

I work in Gvt. Healthcare. They've been spending 1 year trying to define an API for activating the new healthcare smartcards. It has 3 API calls, it's not done yet, and it's SOAP only. And then the leadership has been trying to get government support to mandate by law the forced usage of their crappy APIs.

Germany is a digital dinosaur, no matter how much these old tycoons come to the bay area with their newly appointed chief of innovations for a week they won't get it, because they never had to compete on anything to get it.

User experience is a completely foreign concept to them.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by eru on Monday October 09, 2017 @07:12AM (#15432875)
And yet, dealing with retail banking in Britain makes me yearn nostalgically for the days of yore when I was banking in Germany. I liked DKB the best, but even Deutsche Bank was miles ahead of eg HSBC in terms of online banking.

(A few challenger banks like Monzo are trying to give Britain decent retail banking. I wish them luck.)

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by robert_foss on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:15AM (#15432420)
Having just moved to Germany the obsession with physical paperwork for various reasons is somewhat astounding.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by tnolet on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:56AM (#15432578)
As a Dutch person living and working in Berlin for some years now I can confirm the astounding gap between the state of digital banking between two wealthy neighbouring countries. The Dutch are practically light years ahead of the Germans on this one. This I say as a consumer and having worked in Dutch banking IT for 10 years.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by robert_foss on Monday October 09, 2017 @06:26AM (#15432686)
This exactly what I'm experiencing too. Just moved to Berlin, and have lived in Canada && Sweden previously.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by biztos on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:45AM (#15432532)
Germany requires a lot of high-touch interaction to get anything official done, but in Hungary I have to sign seven (seven!) pages in order to send a DHL letter. So it can be much worse. :-)
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by robert_foss on Monday October 09, 2017 @06:39AM (#15432740)
When receiving packages from outside of the EU, you'll have the pleasure of going to the Zollamt in Germany.

At the Zollamt you'll get to enjoy standing in at least 3 separate and consecutive lines. Only to pay import taxes. Something that could have been done faster, cheaper and more conveniently by sending an invoice.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by kogepathic on Monday October 09, 2017 @08:37AM (#15433293)
> Something that could have been done faster, cheaper and more conveniently by sending an invoice.

This is how it works if the seller fills out CN22 properly and the customs officials believe the declared contents/value.

I have several times received packages with duties that I paid on delivery. No need to travel to the Zollamt.

I have also been to the Zollamt when they suspect the package contains something else than what is on the shipping manifest. They're always quite giddy to catch you doing something not allowed and always end up terribly disappointed and grumpy when it's exactly as described and then you just pay VAT.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by alt2501 on Monday October 09, 2017 @06:42AM (#15432759)
That's awesome. Love the process.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by freeflight on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:30AM (#15432473)
A lot of this has to with legal definitions from a pre-digital time. Fax is considered a "secure transmission", so it's hold actual weight in the German law system. Emails? Not so much. Especiallly when working in healthcare this can be an immense logistical issue, shuffling paper prescriptions around between 3-5 parties ain't no fun and leads to prescriptions being lost in the process and a lot of beurocratic overhead.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by rjzzleep on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:54AM (#15432571)
It's a combination of both. Disclaimer IANAL I just tend to talk to them.

Digital signatures by themselves only provide non repudiation of the sender non the receiver. When in court, you as a sender will have to prove that the receiver actually received the data. § 371 ZPO [1]

When sending a Mail per Einschreiben, the receiver instead has to prove that he didnt in fact get the message. Why that also applies to FAX blows my mind though.

AS4 and AS2 respectively solve this in a way, because the receipt is part of the protocol and successful transmission. From what I understand(I might be wrong) its traditionally used for EDI in supply chain systems [2]. Drummond certifies that your product supports the standard correctly some people make a lot of money and you're good to go(it's XML and SOAP though). Apparently the EU is looking at using it.

Here's where the german bureaucracy ruins everything though. The law stated above mandates from what I understand(again IANAL) that you use DE-Mail for communication to flip the procedure stated above. DE-Mail requires the use of a trust center, a third party that receives the message and forwards it. The only other way to flip the evidence case is by using your own contract, which german lawyers avoid, because they might be liable in case something goes wrong.

[1] https://dejure.org/gesetze/ZPO/371.html

[2] https://www.rssbus.com/mft/img/AS2-Diagram.png

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by Xylakant on Monday October 09, 2017 @06:23AM (#15432681)
> When sending a Mail per Einschreiben, the receiver instead has to prove that he didnt in fact get the message. Why that also applies to FAX blows my mind though.

Fax has a built-in transmission protocol and the receiver confirms that the transmission succeeded.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by pjmlp on Monday October 09, 2017 @09:28AM (#15433573)
When I moved here I was quite surprised with the stone age ATMs compared with what we had in Portugal almost two decades ago, where all kinds of services were available (train tickets, concert tickets, charging mobile phones, internet payments, ...) and best of all, at no additional charge regardless of the bankcard origin.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by kuschku on Monday October 09, 2017 @06:06AM (#15432603)
Actually, in November, SEPA ICS comes into force.

All bank transfers have to happen in 10 seconds or less.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by kogepathic on Monday October 09, 2017 @08:41AM (#15433314)
I hadn't heard of this before! Here is more info: https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/news-insights/insight...
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by Quarrelsome on Monday October 09, 2017 @03:55AM (#15432157)
SOAP in 2017? Yikes. Design by committee?
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by dmitriid on Monday October 09, 2017 @04:11AM (#15432217)
SOAP is bleeding edge in banks. Many still pull and push files to/from (S)FTP
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by nurettin on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:30AM (#15432472)
I've done integrations with the SAP systems of a few companies. They all had problems with calling SOAP and preferred integrating through SFTP. Apparently SAP programmers have a problem using SOAP or any other sane endpoint.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by hyperdunc on Monday October 09, 2017 @04:25AM (#15432264)
Yes, but surely it's possible to jump straight to REST or beyond.
Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by lucozade on Monday October 09, 2017 @08:51AM (#15433366)
Of course it's possible.

I mean, arbitrarily picking whatever happens to be a popular comms protocol, with no regard to its functional validity, was how they got to SOAP in the first place.

Probably the only thing stopping them will be the byzantine budgetary processes that quasi civil services have.

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by dmitriid on Monday October 09, 2017 @05:45AM (#15432533)
If you're willing to invest a gazillion dollars:

- re-implementing all the processes at the receiving bank

- re-implementing all the processes at the sending bank

Re:Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for th... by cm2187 on Monday October 09, 2017 @02:30AM (#15431922)
Isn't PSD2 for retail banking / deposit accounts? This API I believe is an Investment Banking product.