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Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by matt_wulfeck on Thursday October 05, 2017 @01:54PM (#15411088)
I really hope a head rolls for this mistake. That team needs some new leadership.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by FabHK on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:42PM (#15411546)
I like the aviation mind set on mistakes: accidents are thoroughly investigated, the aim being to find out what happened and how, not to pin blame. Then, when facile "explanations" of human error are floated, the investigation goes beyond that and examines how the whole system (training, management, SOPs, organisational structure, etc.) allowed the error to happen and, in particular, to escalate into an accident.

Mistakes happen, inevitably – a good system will catch them early enough.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by cortesoft on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:08PM (#15412207)
One of our rules for all learning reviews after an incident: "Plan for a world where we are all just as stupid as we are today"

An action item to fix something can never be "don't make that mistake again." You have to make a change to the system to find and prevent the error, not a change to the people in the system.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by georgespencer on Thursday October 05, 2017 @01:57PM (#15411115)
Or maybe: “I hope they improve and nobody loses their job”
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by whack on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:12PM (#15411272)
Sadly, errors like this are usually symptoms of organizational problems. Code cleanliness, testing and QA, are all very easy to sweep under the rug, and neglect/abuse organizationally. In the short-term, everything still seems fine. In the long run, problems like these keep snowballing. Once a trend like this starts, the only way to reverse it is via organizational shakeups.

I hope I'm wrong, and that a bug like this happened purely due to dumb luck. But somehow, I'm doubtful.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by matt_wulfeck on Thursday October 05, 2017 @06:36PM (#15413085)
Exactly why I (the GP) was advocating a change in leadership.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by georgespencer on Friday October 06, 2017 @04:51PM (#15420388)
I mean… just lol at the extraordinary series of inferences here.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by mikestew on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:14PM (#15411293)
Without knowing the circumstances of how the bug was introduced, and the testing infrastructure, I'm torn. On the one hand, I could be convinced that some believable scenarios exist where test might have missed this through something other than incompetence and sloppiness.

OTOH, I'm having a hard time imagining what that "believable" scenario might look like. You hand me Disk Utility to test, and I'm going to do some exploratory testing to cram some large strings in both fields, yada yada, we all know the drill. You know, take a moment or two before hitting the code editor. I'm just grasping to figure out how I wouldn't find this bug in like five minutes. And that's before formal tests start getting written. There's missing a bug, and then there's "maybe testing software isn't for you".

In summary, I very much want to give Apple the benefit of the doubt here, but I'm sure having a hard time of it.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by Someone on Thursday October 05, 2017 @03:05PM (#15411747)
I think that bug could easily slip through once, even with a test script. Let’s say the script says

  - enter P as password
  - enter H as hint
  - click “OK”
  - unmount the disk
  - mount it again
  - check that the dialog shows the hint H
  - enter P as the password
  ...
Now, if P isn’t obviously a password and H isn’t obviously a hint (let’s say P is ‘foo’, and H is ‘bar’), it takes only one slip of the mind to turn that “check that the dialog shows the hint H” into “check that the dialog shows the string you just entered as hint”, and from there, it’s only a tiny further slip to “yes, that’s a string I just entered”.

To me, it seems at least as likely that that gets past a tester once as it is that a programmer writes that bug.

It still should be highly unlikely to get throug multiple rounds of testing by multiple testers, though.

A better test description would use a more password-like value for P (say ‘tqbfjoald’) and a more hint-like value for H (‘quick and brown’), decreasing that risk.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by mikestew on Thursday October 05, 2017 @03:23PM (#15411869)
A better test description would use a more password-like value for P (say ‘tqbfjoald’) and a more hint-like value for H (‘quick and brown’), decreasing that risk.

Maybe I expect too much, but a tester with any experience is going to use strings like "thePassword" and "theHint" to reduce those brain farts. One doesn't have to test software very long before discovering why using "test", "test" as the respective strings for that dialog will bite you.

I agree with your hypothesis, but it's one of those mistakes I'd expect out of a fresh-out-of-college person, and I would expect those folks to be testing, say, TextEdit and not security-sensitive pieces. But there are so many unknowns that I still reserve judgement. I'd just like to know what piece of the process broke down such that something like this gets out the door.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by Someone on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:45PM (#15412453)
I agree it shouldn’t happen, but in this case, the programmer presumably made (more or less) the same mistake, writing out a variable called password unencrypted, possibly after copying it to a variable or structure field called passwordhint.

Thinking of that, this may be an example of a copy-paste bug (https://www.viva64.com/en/a/0068/), where the programmer wrote

   strcpy(&r.password    , &encryptedpassword);
   strcpy(&r.passwordhint, &password);
instead of

   strcpy(&r.password    , &encryptedpassword);
   strcpy(&r.passwordhint, &passwordhint);
(Hopefully using the safer strncpy, but that’s orthogonal to this argument)
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by nevir on Thursday October 05, 2017 @01:59PM (#15411131)
Agreed. You can be sure that whomever was involved with the bug will probably never make that mistake again.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by stinos on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:05PM (#15411206)
You can be sure ... probably

So which one will it be?

On a more serious note: this really depends on the person in question. Not everyone has that state of mind it takes to be extra wary when you find yourself in a similar situation where it went worng before. I've worked with people who made pretty severe mistakes, were pointed out, nodded 'yes', only to just make the exact same programming mistake a few months later. And again, and again.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by cakes on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:34PM (#15411482)
Agreed - something I've personally seen drive such a thing in some people are plans/checklists/etc (nothing wrong with having these) where the recognition of severity is overriden with checking as many boxes as possible in an 8hr day as is required.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by mikestew on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:18PM (#15411338)
You can be sure that whomever was involved with the bug will probably never make that mistake again.

We all like the story of "just spent a million dollars training you", but experience tells me that there is absolutely no assurance whatsoever that any random person won't be repeating that mistake in the future.

EDIT: and to be clear, of what tiny bit I know, I blame test more than dev. From the dev side I can see someone making a stupid mistake (that for the record I could just as easily make) swapping the foo with the bar, or some mis-click in IB. But I'm still astounded that this made it out of test without getting caught.

Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by marnett on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:18PM (#15411333)
They asked for new leadership, not new developers. The 'mistake' wasn't a bug in XYZ, but a leader who took feature deadlines ahead of actual functionality. That leader should be axed - that's what GGP was discussing.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by somethingsimple on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:11PM (#15411266)
If this happened because of a single person's mistake, that's an organization flaw. No individual should be punished for this. Instead, the process (or lack thereof) that led to such an awful bug being shipped should be identified so that something like this does not happen again.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by GoToRO on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:19PM (#15411350)
It's called experience. You don't fire people with experience.
Re:If macOS High Sierra shows your password instead of the p... by pbarnes_1 on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:20PM (#15411362)
Nope. Why? Shit happens.