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Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by manigandham on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:19PM (#15397051)
Value is derived from the potential application of data. Ads as an application isn't worth much since you can still be shown ads just fine without any personal data targeting.

Black market data is worth way more because it's often more personal than just demographic markers and interests, and can potentially lead to large sums of money.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by lifeisstillgood on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @08:41PM (#15397471)
Personal information is less valuable on the black market due to the difficulty in monetising and extracting the cash. If I have your bank account login details I can move cash out of your bank, but almost no hope of sending cash from a U.K. Domestic savings account to my friendly philapines bank over the web UI. That's why Nigerian Princes still send out emails - the find the one idiot willing to walk into his bank and move the 5million that just arrived in his account

Alternatively you need real criminal gangs - dozens of people willing to walk up and down a London street withdrawing 5k at a time from a 1000 Pre-prepared cards and put the money in their rucksacks. They don't come cheap. And its still cash and still in the U.K.

Get Amazon to send you two dozen laptops to the same address with two dozen cards. All as "gifts". Yeah right. Now you gotta sell them - fences run at 10% if you are lucky.

The lowest effort are simple impersonation for loans, but still you have to take the money and move it somewhere. Into cash? Into the phillipines? See above problems. Open a credit card account? How to intercept it and the PIN number sent by post?

All in all, it's actually pretty darn hard to take personal details and monetise at the "real money" level. These things stop being scalable. You could probably fund a student lifestyle off any combination of the above but millions - not really.

Cf interesting Microsoft paper on this a few years back

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by manigandham on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @09:50PM (#15397721)
I guess we have nothing to worry about with all these data breaches then, right? Might as well tell equifax that it’s no big deal too.

These criminals trade data because it makes them money, otherwise there wouldn’t be much of a makrket.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by _jal on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @10:59PM (#15397989)
You're correct, of course, but missing the implications raised by the parent poster, and they are important.

Sensitive personal data is necessary but not sufficient to rip someone off. And if you want to try to make a living ripping people off, there is even more business overhead, making the cost of sensitive personal data an even smaller portion of overall operational costs.

From the point of view of the thief, our personal data is a vital but cheap input into an operation that tends to have very high security costs, viciously expensive liquidity issues and terrible personnel problems, among other more quotidian business headaches.[1]

I suggest trying to think like a crook now and then. Trying to try on other people's lives is a useful way of shaking up one's thinking habits, empathy (don't confuse with sympathy) is always useful, and it can help you keep yourself more secure.

[1] I am leaving out things like several potential fates far worse than bankruptcy and related issues because they aren't opex-related, but they probably do effect retirement planning.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by midwife_cry_sys on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @07:14AM (#15399644)
The black market value is like 10-$15 dollars for a basic credit card number I believe. But gold cards and plat cards can be several times more. But drivers ID and ss# that's worth way more for what I believe are obvious reasons. My prices might be a little off, haven't checked in ages. You get the idea. Say 130 million cards at $10 each. Isn't that almost one and a half billion. Not chump change. Ad
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by soared on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @08:34PM (#15397443)
Well no that's incorrect. A targeted ad is worth significantly more than one without targeting. I buy ads at a $0.25 cpm and a $40 cpm, the only difference is targeting data.
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by fny on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @06:53AM (#15399544)
It still holds the data alone isn't worth much. If you've built an ad platform with customers, reach, and the ability to target people given data, then sure, you can convert that raw material into something more valuable. And once you sell the derived product (ads), you'll be taxed on your income.

I feel like you're arguing that dirt is worth as much as the farm that one could build with it.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by manigandham on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @09:46PM (#15397698)
You can still show the ads and there are a lot of other signals and context to use. Also other than Facebook or google with strong identity, 3rd party data on the open web is next to useless. If you’re paying $40cpm for data, you’re getting ripped off.
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by soared on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @10:24PM (#15397838)
Sorry to be that guy, but: I spend over $5m a year on rtb ads. I literally spend 50 hours a week doing this. If the money I spend doesn't produce verifiable results, I lose it.

For example, that 40cpm is to reach a pool of <1000 users who are in charge of purchasing for networks of hospitals, and my ads are for MRI machines. 3rd party data is unbelievably valuable, probably $1.5 million of my budget goes to data costs alone.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by manigandham on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @06:53AM (#15399540)
That doesn't add up. I've managed budgets a magnitude higher, know the founders of every major SSP and DMP, and now specialize in B2B marketing for F1000 companies with long sales cycles. If you're really trying to reach a pool that small, open web advertising is incredibly inefficient.

This is well understood by the adtech community and even the flashy new "ABM" companies will tell you the same. 3rd party data is universally terrible. At best, it'll work at scale (of millions) on general demographic details but will definitely not recognize 1000 people on the open web.

That kind of list might work on Linkedin or Facebook with email targeting but it would be easier to focus on niche trade sites without any data, or just use a direct sales team. That $1.5M in data you're paying for would have much better ROI with a good VP of sales.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by erik_seaberg on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @03:02AM (#15398756)
They're swayed by ads? I'm surprised they don't need to do a formal RFP among the handful of companies who can make an MRI certified for medical use.
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by willvarfar on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @04:01AM (#15398943)
The targeted viewer may see the ad and start thinking "we need a better modern MRI with whatever fancy feature I read about here" or "we could hire a new MRI from xyz cheaper than our current contract!".

Sometimes you can prod your potential customers into action.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by yread on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @03:23AM (#15398833)
Who do you send the RFP to?
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by lostlogin on Thursday October 05, 2017 @02:32PM (#15411460)
That anyone would be influenced in what MR scanner they buy due to Facebook advert is amazing. It would also explain things I hear from radiographers overseas. Wow. Are you able to state which vendors buy Facebook adverts (I assume you can’t)?
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by robertlagrant on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @02:11AM (#15398602)
Might be better off spending £5k+ on personal gifts for each decision maker than bothering with Web advertising if it's that few people you're targeting :-)
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by ben_w on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @02:46AM (#15398712)
I may not be a lawyer, but gifts of $5k to induce someone to purchase a thing for their workplace feels like it should count as corruption and bribery.

If someone tried to do that to me, I’d report the attempt to the company lawyer, and I’d doubt the quality of the thing they were selling was as good as the quality of the thing the other poster was advertising.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by manigandham on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @07:15AM (#15399645)
Welcome to the advertising industry. You'd be surprised what goes on when media buyers control so much money. There are 20 year old planners with control of 7+ figure budgets for major brands - you can bet they're getting plenty of gifts.
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by sirk390 on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @04:37AM (#15399053)
5k+ per person would be bribery. I hope he meant 5k in total..., 1000 gifts of 5$ would be ok
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by midwife_cry_sys on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @07:03AM (#15399593)
I'm sure he meant what he said. Do the math. He was trying to point out that it would cost the same either way. But if you give the mark the money, it would have a much greater effect than 5k on silly web adds.
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by diN0bot on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @05:01AM (#15399120)
what about a $5k rebate or discount?
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by ben_w on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @06:32AM (#15399448)
Difficult to say. My mental framing has, as a result of my previous post, become “be suspicious”.
[dead]
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by zentiggr on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @08:02AM (#15399848)
That honestly sounds borderline mafia or cartel style... "We're going to bribe you, you're going to take it, and since we all know it's illegal, you're on the hook with us all. Welcome to the game kid."
Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by ben_w on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @08:26AM (#15399944)
If I’m ever in a position to be worth anyone trying to bribe me, I’ll try to make sure nobody is in a position to threaten me like that.

Fortunately for me, I don’t control any budgets.

Re:Yahoo Triples Estimate of Breached Accounts to 3B by Spooky23 on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @06:30AM (#15399436)
In the old days, you would do that.

Now that’s not allowed in most places, plus you need to hire fancy salespeople to deliver those gifts.