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Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by ransom1538 on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:27PM (#15389374)
A state is represented by two Senators (regardless of population). This would mean making PR a state would dilute other states votes. Regarding the House of Representatives, PR has a "delegate", called the Resident Commissioner - which have almost no voting power. The population also tends to vote almost %50/50 for democratic vs republican [i].

This setup basically gives no incentive for either party to push for PR to be a state. (Even though it should be).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_Pu...

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by briandear on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:54PM (#15389507)
Puerto Rico ought not be a state, it should be independent. Why the US would want to annex PR would be a mystery to me.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by maxerickson on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:00PM (#15389541)
Why the US would want to annex PR would be a mystery to me.

That doesn't make any sense. The US already did that.

It's a matter of undoing it or giving it equal status with states, not a matter of claiming control of the territory.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by blackbagboys on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @12:47AM (#15390240)
The Puerto Ricans themselves disagree, as they've never voted for independence in any of the referendums on the issue that have been held over the last fifty years.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by astura on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:15PM (#15389605)
The US can't "annex" Puerto Rico, that has long been done; Puerto Rico has been American territory since 1899.

For how it got that way, Spain agreed to succeeded it to end of the Spanish-American war.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by labster on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:06PM (#15389823)
The word you're looking for is cede, pronounced the same as seed. The noun form is cession, because English is super complicated.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by lotsofpulp on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:31PM (#15389393)
It might still not be enough. Washington D.C. would almost certainly be a Democratic vote, but as I understand it, there's no way Republicans will allow D.C. voters to be represented in the Senate, all the while babbling about patriotism.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by rayiner on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:41PM (#15389438)
DC as a federal city should not have Senators or representatives. People aren’t supposed to live here, it’s just supposed to be a safe place for the federal government to sit that isn’t controlled by a state. It certainly shouldn’t be a major metro region.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by kibwen on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:59PM (#15389786)
The purpose of moving the capital from Philadelphia was to prevent any one state from exerting military control over the federal government.

The thought that "people aren't supposed to live here" makes no difference to the matter; people do live there, a lot of people, more than the entire states of Wyoming and Vermont, and without those residents the government would cease to function.

It would be feasible to enfranchise the citizens of DC by granting statehood while also maintaining the original intent of the city, by requiring the new state constitution to yield all physical security to the authority of the federal government.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by dragonwriter on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:45PM (#15389455)
> DC as a federal city should not have Senators or representatives. People aren’t supposed to live here

Then return the parts of the current district on which residences (other than official government ones like the White House) sit to the original states.

Because people do, in fact, live in D.C., and those people are currently governed (and taxed) without representation in the federal legislature.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by rayiner on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:40PM (#15389938)
The federal government needs a capital district it can defend militarily against the states. That's the whole point of D.C. The fact that people choose to live here to take advantage of federal government largesse doesn't mean they should have representation in Congress.[1] In the Constitutional scheme, states have representation in Congress, not people.

[1] As noted below, a significant fraction of the African American population live in D.C. because their ancestors were brought here involuntarily. They should be permitted to vote.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by dctoedt on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @03:21PM (#15395243)
> The federal government needs a capital district it can defend militarily against the states. That's the whole point of D.C.

That overstates the matter. The federal government was incapable of defending the District militarily against the states, because it intentionally had no significant standing army at the time the District was ceded to it [0]. Even after the U.S. Army started to take shape — mainly for service on the frontier, not at the national capital — it's doubtful that the District could have resisted invasion by the militia of even one of its state neighbors; this is indirectly evidenced by the ease with which the British took and burned Washington in 1814.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_A...

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by baddox on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @01:03AM (#15390308)
How do large residential areas help the federal government defend itself against the states?
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by chrisco255 on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:51PM (#15389493)
Then just absorb it into Virginia or Maryland.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by dragonwriter on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:03PM (#15389554)
That's what I said.

Although it runs into the problem that Virginia and Maryland don't want it.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by maxerickson on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:29PM (#15389676)
It could probably be turned into a simple matter of money.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by dragonwriter on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:11PM (#15389839)
Sure, but the rest of the country with voting representatives in Congress would rather disenfranchise D.C. residents than pay Virginia and Maryland to take on the extra population and the census count, representation, etc., that comes with them. But Virgina and Maryland's existing citizens don't want to dilute their own votes in their own states to take on a bunch of (disproportionately) poor, urban blacks.

The only people with a rational (short-term, at least) interest in D.C. representation is D.C. residents, and they don't get a vote, or even a vote for people who get a vote.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by maxerickson on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:23PM (#15389869)
Sure, but the rest of the country with voting representatives in Congress would rather disenfranchise D.C. residents than pay Virginia and Maryland to take on the extra population and the census count, representation, etc., that comes with them.

This strikes me as a very truthy claim. I'd expect the vast majority of people to be utterly indifferent to paying Virginia or Maryland to absorb parts of DC. They might say otherwise in a poll, but they'd act like it never happened when they next voted.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by tptacek on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:07AM (#15391547)
This made sense a couple centuries ago, but no longer does today. The seat of federal government could be moved back to Philly and the country would operate much as it does now. No American metropolis needs military protection "from the states" more than any other.

DC statehood would also help mitigate the distortive effect of allocating 2 Senators to every state regardless of population, which exaggerates the rural vote.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by tedunangst on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @08:35PM (#15397449)
Please no capital in philly.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:19PM (#15389621)
Hell sounds like the only sensible solution is removing them and then burning the city down, if it "wasn't supposed to be" like this.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by DrScump on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @04:02AM (#15390896)
The British already tried that.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:29AM (#15391622)
Who knew they were just doing us a favor?
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by labster on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:15PM (#15389850)
"People aren't supposed to live [in DC]" is racist if you consider the population that does live there, and how that racial minority came to live there in historical context. Almost certainly unintentional racism, but you definitely could have phrased it better as "the original intent of a federal district was not to create a large city outside of a State."
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by rayiner on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:43PM (#15389949)
You're definitely right. There are a significant number of D.C. residents who live here because their ancestors were brought to the city as slaves. They should be able to vote. Everyone else should not.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by SamReidHughes on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @01:26AM (#15390378)
No, they had as much choice to grow up in D.C. as anybody else who grew up there.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by objectivetruth on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @05:39PM (#15396440)
That's got to violate like a dozen constitutional and legal principles from the past couple of hundred years...
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:34AM (#15391654)
Sounds like a nightmare to administer that policy.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by cafard on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @09:03AM (#15392082)
DC resident here. People aren't supposed to live here? They did live here when the boundaries were laid out. There were farms, and two small towns.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by briandear on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:48PM (#15389473)
DC is not a sovereign state, thus isn’t entitled to a senator. DC doesn’t have a state government that needs representation, which is the purpose of a senator. This isn’t some Republican conspiracy that just happened.

The Senate wasn’t designed to represent “the people” anyway, it was designed to represent the interests of the sovereign states — of which DC is not. The House of Representatives is what represents “the people.”

There is a persistent and fundamental lack of understanding of the US government by many people, case in point is the complete ignorance about the purpose of both the Senate and the electoral college. The US is a federal republic, not a democracy.

This has nothing to do with Republicans and Democrats, but with the Constitution.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by lotsofpulp on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:20PM (#15389626)
Thank you for the background. I guess I should have written DC has no representation in the House then. Regardless of how it was originally setup, I don't see any reason why people paying federal taxes shouldn't have voting rights, at least in the House. Here's a good legal argument for it too:

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/poladv/...

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by gasbag on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @01:26PM (#15394178)
> The Senate wasn’t designed to represent “the people” anyway, it was designed to represent the interests of the sovereign states — of which DC is not. The House of Representatives is what represents “the people.”

This was how it was designed, and if state congresses still elected federal senators, this argument against DC having senate representation would hold water. Once the 17th Amendment changed it to direct election of senators, the chamber no longer represented the interests of the state, it now just gives the people in less populous states a lot more influence over the law.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by phaemon on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:59AM (#15391773)
> The US is a federal republic, not a democracy.

The USA clearly is a democracy, since it has democratic elections. Specifically, it is a representative democracy. I have no idea why anyone thinks being a federation and/or being a republic are somehow in opposition to this. The three concepts are completely orthogonal.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by talmand on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @12:50PM (#15393825)
Maybe it comes from the idea that many of the founding fathers didn't seem to care for the concept of democracy? At the time it was considered by many as essentially mob rule.

I can see that the context doesn't fit with today's ideas and definitions of how our country's government works, but that is exactly how the country was set up in the beginning.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by sciurus on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:55PM (#15389771)
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by jldugger on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @05:50PM (#15396517)
> The Senate wasn’t designed to represent “the people” anyway, it was designed to represent the interests of the sovereign states

And over time it has evolved to directly represent the people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_U...

We have 27 reasons to think the constitution as designed was imperfect, and at least one reason to think the representation of DC was flawed. I'm sure we can add more.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:35AM (#15391662)
You are just reiterating the complaint.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by culturestate on Monday October 02, 2017 @09:41PM (#15389436)
There's another more important problem for that specific situation: statehood (and the equivalent representation) for D.C. would require a constitutional amendment.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @07:34AM (#15391646)
So what? We've done that before.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by culturestate on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @02:47AM (#15398714)
It's actually incredibly difficult to get a constitutional amendment heard and ratified. Even the equal rights amendment was shouted down despite massive bipartisan support.

[Note] Also, such an amendment has already been sent to the states and failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Ri...

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by emodendroket on Wednesday October 04, 2017 @09:25AM (#15400269)
I'm not denying that it's difficult, but it's been done, depending on how you want to count, either 27 or 18 times already. And there's no rule saying you can't consider an amendment again if it doesn't pass once.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by bkohlmann on Monday October 02, 2017 @10:04PM (#15389559)
While there is a political element to the opposition for D.C. Statehood, there is also a non-partisan one.

D.C. was created as a compromise, deliberately set aside as a federal region, so no state would have control over the capital. It seems a reasonable thing to keep it as such.

Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by kibwen on Monday October 02, 2017 @11:03PM (#15389810)
This used to be my opinion as well upon learning of the history of DC's foundation, but in retrospect it seems like it should not be outrageous to think of a compromise that enfranchises DC citizens without compromising the security of the capital.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by landryraccoon on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @02:01AM (#15390486)
The people who happen to live in DC seem to have quite a bit of influence over the government actually. Much more than the average Californian for example.
Re:The Media Has Neglected Puerto Rico by SamReidHughes on Tuesday October 03, 2017 @01:27AM (#15390382)
You aren’t saying anything, because nobody’s calling the idea outrageous.