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Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by kllrnohj on Monday October 02, 2017 @03:33PM (#15387162)
VISA is a credit agency. As in, they confirm the money is paid, nobody else. There's no other transaction that happens as part of paying with VISA other than the monthly bill.

But it should be glaringly obvious that Bitcoin is by far the most expensive way to do financial transactions. That shouldn't even be contentious. It's literally built on the idea of doing computationally-expensive busywork.

Whether or not that busywork is a waste of power or a necessary cost then depends on your social beliefs, but it's definitely going to be vastly more power-expensive than any of the existing systems.

Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by lojack on Monday October 02, 2017 @03:57PM (#15387379)
> There's no other transaction that happens as part of paying with VISA other than the monthly bill.

I respectfully disagree. There are many many transactions that happen behind the scenes when you're paying with a Visa card. All transactions go through a merchant bank before ever being sent to Visa, and they may even go through a second third party. Additionally there's a number of times in which clearing and settlement occurs, both on the merchant side and on the "monthly bill" part that you discounted as irrelevant.

This all takes energy, the POS takes energy, the banks all require energy to process transactions, it takes energy to send out statements, to pay your bill. I have no clue if this entire process takes more energy than Bitcoin or not, but I can guarantee the cost of doing a transaction through Visa isn't glaringly obvious.

Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by kllrnohj on Monday October 02, 2017 @04:25PM (#15387605)
The number calculated for VISA's power/transaction was arrived at by taking the entire power consumption of VISA's data-centers and dividing by the number of transactions.

Far from a perfect number and you're correct it won't cover payment processors, but it's also picking up non-trivial amounts of other stuff since those data centers don't do exclusively payment processing.

But either way you wouldn't count the POS. The POS is still there consuming the same amount of power if you pay with BTC, VISA, or cash.

Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by lojack on Monday October 02, 2017 @04:43PM (#15387764)
Another problem with those numbers is that its a two sided transaction, and Visa data centers only account for one side of the transaction. It also doesn't account for any clearing houses external to Visa.
Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by Animats on Monday October 02, 2017 @03:40PM (#15387234)
Even excluding mining cost, Bitcoin does a lot of work per transaction. Every full node gets an update for every transaction.
Re:Running Bitcoin uses a small city’s worth of electricity by _jtrig on Monday October 02, 2017 @04:02PM (#15387416)
The bitcoin network leverages electricity/computing costs as a way to ensure competitive decentralized security.

It's driving electrical/computational consumption efficiency but its definitely a catch-22 as with most technology.