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Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by vixen99 on Friday September 29, 2017 @05:23AM (#15363863)
OECD 2016

"Young people in England are the most illiterate in the developed world with many students graduating with only a basic grasp of English and maths, an in-depth analysis by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has found. The OECD report rated English teenagers aged 16 to 19 the worst of 23 developed nations in literacy and 22nd of 23 in numeracy.

In contrast, pensioners or those close to retirement were among the highest-ranked of their age group."

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by ZeroGravitas on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:51AM (#15364191)
But that's just relative rank between developed nations.

It would be like Ferrari finishing last in a 21st Century car race and concluding that cars are going slower that they used to.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:02AM (#15364000)
But most people back then didn't go to university. And the OECD compares across 23 developed nations.

Though, in my opinion, education quality has gone down.

In France, 2010ish?, in my last year of high school (in one of the best parisian high school) there was a boy who couldn't read aloud a text without stumbling. I don't know if this would have happened in the past. But back then only 20k students reached that stage and now it's 200k.

edit: stumbling/stuttering

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by Clubber on Friday September 29, 2017 @08:52AM (#15364754)
>Though, in my opinion, education quality has gone down.

What would you think if I told you I graduated in the 1990s and I felt the same way? Where would that put you?

>there was a boy who couldn't read aloud a text without stumbling.

There could be other reasons for that, like fear of public speaking.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:16AM (#15366007)
Maybe you were in a pessimistic period in your life and I am the same way now.

He didn't fear much. He was a bully.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by Clubber on Saturday September 30, 2017 @01:24PM (#15373910)
Honestly I never bought into the stories that the current generation is full of dummies. It's mostly news hype made to make you feel superior about yourself. Those stories are amping up here in the US about Millenials. It's all BS.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by RepressedEmu on Monday October 02, 2017 @01:37PM (#15385964)
Bullies are normally very insecure themselves which is why they shine the spotlight on others. Speaking as a former bully.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by asfdsfggtfd on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:26AM (#15364088)
A stutter is a disability not a sign of lack of intelligence/education.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:47AM (#15364171)
He didn't stutter when speaking. He just couldn't read as fast as he was talking so he had to stop every few syllables.

In other words, he was 17 and couldn't read fluently. But he wasn't stupid. He was quite conscientious about his side business and bookkeeping.

ps: I stuttered when I was a child.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by danieltillett on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:59AM (#15364225)
The English word you want is not stutter, but stumble. Stutter (or stammer) is a medical condition, stumbling over words is the result of a poor quality education.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:14AM (#15364303)
Thank you, I edited my original comment.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by danieltillett on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:21AM (#15364333)
Not a problem. English is an easy language to begin, but a very hard one to master.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @08:23AM (#15364610)
I knew the correct word and expression, I just didn't have it in mind at the right time ^^

I've read and written in English everyday for 10 years. I just can't speak it. One day I realized most news article I read were only translations of other articles. So I decided to skip the middle man.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by justinclift on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:45AM (#15364434)
Any chance he's dyslexic or similar? That description kind of sounds like it.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by Clubber on Friday September 29, 2017 @08:54AM (#15364764)
>He just couldn't read as fast as he was talking so he had to stop every few syllables.

Is that your professional medical opinion?

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:18AM (#15366017)
No. But it's the opinion of someone who spent 6 to 8 hours a day during three years with the person in question. He couldn't read. When he read in his head he mouthed the words.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by dpark on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:09AM (#15365949)
> I don't know if this would have happened in the past.

Let us assume the answer is no for the sake of argument. Does that necessarily mean the quality of education has dropped? Not necessarily. It could mean that 30 years ago this boy would have failed to graduate.

This doesn't mean that the education was any better then, only that the requirements for graduation are lower now. The top and average students today might be leaving with better knowledge and skills than 30 years ago even if the very bottom looks "worse" because fewer people are pushed out entirely. Perhaps the value of the diploma itself diminishes as a result of this, but that doesn't mean the actual education has diminished.

Of course it's also very likely that there have always been people graduating like this.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by jrimbault on Friday September 29, 2017 @11:19AM (#15366033)
All good points :)
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by throwanem on Friday September 29, 2017 @05:52AM (#15363972)
Don't IQ tests control for that? I took one as a small child, and while I could read quite well, I don't remember needing to. It was a lot of "use these blocks to reproduce this diagram" and "given these three pictures, which should come next?" type of thing.
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by andriesm on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:25AM (#15364083)
The movie idiocracy comes to mind. Apparently the flynn effect slowed down. Some people hypothesize that the wellfare state has a dysgenic effect by redistributing income from high IQ (high income) people to low IQ (low income or wellfare recipients)... It effectively creates disproportionate economic incentives for having children, and some indications put heritability of IQ above 0.7
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by Ygg2 on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:36AM (#15364124)
Flynn effect didn't slow down. It actually reversed.

https://theeconomyofmeaning.com/2015/11/12/new-study-shows-r...

It's like https://xkcd.com/603/, except White Hat is is wrong on most accounts.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by thriftwy on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:23AM (#15364344)
In 603, White Hat flies from arguments to preserve his naive positivistic view of the world where things fix themself magically.

"You arguments are wrong because Flynn effect, and if this one is reversed then your arguments are wrong just because."

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by matt4077 on Friday September 29, 2017 @06:55AM (#15364206)
And by "some people" you mean social darwinists advocating eugenics?
Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by danieltillett on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:06AM (#15364266)
You don’t have to be an advocate for eugenics to notice a trend.

Everybody these days is a eugenicist in that they all support the idea of helping pregnant women give birth to health children by ensuring they are well nourished and given good medical support. The section of 20th C. eugenics that is controversial is the part that suggests that one section of society should have more or less children.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by ZeroGravitas on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:20AM (#15364330)
It's not been established that there is a trend to spot.

Here's a recent and fairly pro-eugenics survey of all the results they could find showing a reduction in IQ:

https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2016-dutton.pdf

And even they basically are only at the stage of saying "maybe there's a hidden trend, that's obscured by other trends moving in the opposite direction" (they think society becoming more abstract has caused a false rise in IQ, due to IQ tests measuring that socially taught facility with abstraction rather than raw intelligence, this may have disguised an actual drop in intelligence).

So maybe it does help to have a preconcieved cause to spot this hypothesised trend.

Regarding their hypothesis, it's kind of a philosophical question about whether you'd rather have a society full of uneducated bumpkins (not sure there is an english word for someone with raw intelligence but no education) with sharper reflex times or ability to discern colors, than a modern post-graduate who scores slightly worse on those tests but better on IQ. It's also somewhat unlikely that the former is going to be having less children than the latter, so they whole dysgenic thing seems to be on shakey ground.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by danieltillett on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:29AM (#15364360)
I think you are missing my point which is noticing a trend does not mean you are advocating for political position.

Unless all the people I personally know are very unrepresentative of society in general I have a hard time believing that there is not a negative effect on IQ due to differential fertility.

Re:Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and populatio... by Ygg2 on Friday September 29, 2017 @07:18AM (#15364325)
By some people he means researches mentioned in this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#Heritabilit...).