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Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by skybrian on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @05:03PM (#15288781)
The wild Internet is definitely still there. The problem is that it got too hostile for most users due to spam, viruses, malware, phishing, trolls, doxing, and so on. It will get worse, as attackers adopt machine learning techniques and automate social engineering at scale.

So users have a problem. Companies that solved it the right way became enormous, because protection from all that crap is something people want, and they want it to be easy to use. In the early days it was anti-spam (Gmail). More recently, Snapchat helped teens avoid creating a permanent record of things.

Sure, you can go outside the walls at any time, but how many people really want to? The way to win users is to provide better protection than before, including defenses against new privacy threats, not to somehow convince people they don't need to care about it.

Sometimes providing better protection results in more freedom (of a sort). For example, a well-maintained app store means users don't have to worry about malware and viruses, so they can download whatever games they want without worrying that they'll infect their machine. This wasn't true of Windows in the old days.

Ironically, the web started out pretty safe (or so we thought) and degraded as more adtech came along. These days you can hardly click on a link without getting ads in your face. There's opportunity for someone.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by int_19h on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @10:57PM (#15290435)
The result, though, is not actual privacy protection. It's more that you choose to surrender your privacy to someone, in exchange for protection from other nasties.

It's almost like some kind of weird digital feudalism. You're free to come and go, and if you want, you can live in the wild and take your chances. But if you want the safety of the walls and armed defenders, that comes with a lot of strings attached. And if you ever want to move out of those walls, you leave your plot and your house, with everything valuable on them, behind.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by skybrian on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:18AM (#15290817)
Well, "feudalism" is an exaggeration since you can belong to as many as you want, and sharing some things (such as republishing links) is not hard.

But there is always going to be some kind of a speedbump when sharing between places with different policies. When you have borders between things that are genuinely different (even if they're gratuitous differences), you have border issues. Bigger social networks mean you reach more people without going over a border, which encourages growth.

Borders are everywhere. In the enterprise space, you can look at the growth of Amazon and Google Cloud. In devtools, each programming language tends to be its own domain. (Which is why we call them "foreign" functions.)

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by int_19h on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @04:26AM (#15291704)
> Well, "feudalism" is an exaggeration since you can belong to as many as you want, and sharing some things (such as republishing links) is not hard.

I'll grant you the first part, but sharing is actually a lot harder than it used to be, these days. Try sharing a Facebook post or comment with someone who doesn't have a Facebook account...

> In devtools, each programming language tends to be its own domain. (Which is why we call them "foreign" functions.)

True, but we also develop FFI as a way to call those foreign functions, and meta-frameworks to enable cross-language interop (WinRT being the most recent prominent example of such). Worst case, you can use standard formats and protocols to at least exchange data. Whereas "walled gardens" tend to be deliberately hard to interop with, or even to extract your existing data from.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by ouid on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @07:20PM (#15289580)
>Snapchat helped teens avoid creating a permanent record of things.

Why isn't Snapchat more popular than Instagram? I assumed that it was the case that more people have stage fright than don't. Is this a faulty assumption, or are people just acting in defiance of this fear?

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by odammit on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:46PM (#15289925)
Not to be old, but I had many friends get into Snapchat for a hot minute. My wife and I never did. Instagram let us share photos. Snapchat seemed like just gimmicky cat ears and showboating. The platform very much feels like "look at me" not "hey I had this cool experience and I want to share it."

Full disclosure: I bought a bunch of snapchat stock at the bottom because I fully invest in the self-centeredness of humankind. Worked great w/ FB.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by rovek on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @08:42AM (#15293073)
From a user perspective, validated only by other engineer-friends, Snapchat is a pretty sketchy app.

The UX diverges from common design principles of both major mobile OS, making it feel awkward. The app slaughters batteries in Android phones, occasionally you can actually watch the % drop.

That's not to say it isn't popular, wildly so in younger users, Instagram just has more ad value because of its maturity (reportable metrics) and unbridled desire to be an ad platform.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by sharno on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:26PM (#15289854)
Instagram became more famous because it had the same feature of self deleting posts with a user base. Also people would rather use 1 app for doing everything (posting permanent posts or temporary ones) rather than use many apps. That's why WeChat is became huge too
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by adiabatty on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @07:23PM (#15289592)
Instagram has auto-deleting photo streams now, I hear.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by mirimir on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @01:41AM (#15291097)
> The wild Internet is definitely still there.

It was there before Eternal September. And yes, it's still there, and far richer than it's ever been.

> The problem is that it got too hostile for most users due to spam, viruses, malware, phishing, trolls, doxing, and so on.

It's arguably those mainstream users who are problematic. In large part, they're the trolls. And the ones who are trolled, of course. And they're the bloody flesh in the water that's attracted all the sharks.

> It will get worse, as attackers adopt machine learning techniques and automate social engineering at scale.

No doubt.

> Sure, you can go outside the walls at any time, but how many people really want to?

Anyone with any sense will. The rest can have their AOL/CompuServe experience. And good riddance.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by kayoone on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @02:08AM (#15291194)
> It's arguably those mainstream users who are problematic

That sounds a bit ignorant. Those mainstream users are the vast majority, they make a lot of internet business models worthwhile and made the internet the success that it is. Of course they also attract sharks as you rightfully say, but we should try to improve their experiences instead of denying them any sense or intelligence and putting them in walled gardens.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by indigochill on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @08:59AM (#15293220)
I'm curious what you propose to improve their experiences.

I think you need walled gardens for mainstream users. The reason is that the weakest link in any security system is people. Especially normal, pleasant, trusting, non-confrontational people. People like my grandparents, who just install whatever a guy who claims to be tech support tells them to install.

Should people like my grandparents have a good experience on the internet? Absolutely. Can they have it without taking away all their freedom to make mistakes? I don't see how. Any freedom we give them will be exploited by the sharks. Education is a good thing which can make them more shark-resistant, but not everyone will take it upon themselves to be educated.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by mirimir on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @02:22AM (#15291245)
> internet business models

Many idealists considered that a ridiculous idea.

Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by wickawic on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @03:55AM (#15291601)
And many didn't. Weasel words abound.
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by mirimir on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @04:34AM (#15291738)
Do you deny that commercialization of the Internet in the mid 1990s was controversial?
Re:Facebook Faces a New World as Officials Rein in a Wild Web by mirimir on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @02:32PM (#15296849)
OK, I gotta repeat this dead comment, because it's so good:

> Incredibly so. But I have realized that the large majority of Internet users today have no point of reference to that time because they were either not alive, where very small children, or weren't paying any attention to what was going on. But for a brief time, humanity was being uplifted instead of being loaded onto digital cattle cars. There truly is a threat here--technocracy is turning America into a gulag and it needs to stop. No, I am not kidding. It's not just the Internet, it's all the companies collecting massive data "to better serve us" that are creating the . chains.

> I'm just glad I experienced that early period. Sunsite at UNC was the greatest. There were many true humanitarians back then. Today, we have the growing evil of Google and the Never-Was-Anything-But-Evil Facebook!

Yeah, it's been very sad to see possibility crushed, and people pervasively surveilled and manipulated.