News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by tootie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @02:17PM (#15229856)
I think that's less relevant than it used to be. JetBrains is now the de facto best IDE for Java, JavaScript, Python and PHP. It has Android Studio and even support for C#. Visual Studio also supports a wide array of languages. I'm in IntelliJ pretty much all the time, no matter the project.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by kllrnohj on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:01PM (#15230586)
IntelliJ is expensive if you want languages not covered by the free edition (like JavaScript), though, and even if you pay for it some things are frustratingly distinct such as if you have a Java/C++ app you need two different "IDEs" (CLion + IntelliJ), and you need to then juggle between those windows. Android Studio is able to work with both even though IntelliJ Ultimate isn't (why, Jetbrains, why!?), but getting Android Studio to work on non-Android things isn't the nicest of experiences.

I'd be more willing to pay for the quality if a nice, unified experience was the result, but it annoyingly isn't. To say nothing of the lack of support for things like Rust.

That's what this new generation of IDEs is exciting to me - the unified language server standards. Let the compilers handle understanding the code which is what they are best at. Especially if it helps make IDEs less tied to the build system in general (no, CLion, I don't want to use CMake)

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by noir_lord on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:14PM (#15230822)
Intellij Ultimate costs me £14 a month, with the plugins (which makes it equivalent to Phpstorm, PyCharm, Rubymine and Webstorm) thats less than I spend on coffee in two weeks, it's insane value however you look at it.

That said I still spend a chunk of time (maybe 30%) in vscode because for somethings I prefer it (it's git support with git lens is incredible) and for TypeScript it's comparable to Intellij with the advantage you can start it, do an edit and close before Intellij has finished re-indexing.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by kllrnohj on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:25PM (#15232940)
IntelliJ ultimate doesn't include C++ support, though, which is an additional $100 to get the "all products" package. $250 for a fairly basic C++ IDE that insists you use Cmake is not exactly an "insane value" to me, but ymmv.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by humanrebar on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @11:35PM (#15235320)
C++ tooling is fairly abysmal. Partly because the language is so darn complex and full of warts. You basically need to implement most of a compiler to get meaningful IDE features.

Point being, a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by kllrnohj on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @12:58AM (#15235671)
> a higher price point for a C++ IDE makes a lot of sense.

Except Eclipse does C++ better than CLion and it's $250 cheaper. The only real advantage JetBrains has here is consistency with their other products, but then they ruined that by putting it in its own standalone product. So you can't have, say, a Python/Java/Kotlin project with a C++ extension library in a single IDE window, at least not if you're invested in JetBrains technology.

Whereas that would work fine in vscode, Eclipse, Atom-IDE probably once it gets a C++ language server plugin which LLVM is working on, etc... Competition is good. IntelliJ is far from complete. That's really all I'm getting at. IntelliJ is not the pinacle, superior end-all-be-all IDE that some were saying here. It maybe is if you're in their primary supported set of languages. But it's not if you're at all on the fringes of what JetBrains supports (not that I'd necessarily call C++ a "fringe", either, but whatever)

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by humanrebar on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @06:13AM (#15236934)
The Eclipse indexer seems better. The CLion search tools and non-C++ features (integrated DB utilities, OOP-style refactoring tools, etc.) are certainly better.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by conistonwater on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @11:58PM (#15235420)
C++ has libclang, which is "most of a compiler" and pretty good, so if you can plug libclang into your editor, which most editors like emacs can do, then it's pretty close to an IDE.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by humanrebar on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @06:17AM (#15236951)
The reasoning I've heard why an IDE doesn't do that (as opposed to a beefed-up text editor) is that an IDE needs to continue parsing and analyzing even in the face of an error in your source code. Because, presumably, you still want features like "jump to the definition of FoobarClient" to work even if you've misspelled something in a header included indirectly by FoobarClient.h.

Compilers generally stop after the first set of errors in the first compilation unit. IDE indexers want to keep going as much as possible.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by tym0 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:32PM (#15231192)
I keep seeing people writing about these "cheap" intellij subscriptions but on the website it's 400 pounds a year.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by pdpi on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @08:26PM (#15234366)
You're probably looking at the "Businesses and Organizations" pricing, where the org pays £499/yr per user. The personal ("Individual Customers") license is starts at £199, and decreases to £159 then £119 for subsequent years. There's a bunch of groups (e.g. Open Source projects) that qualify for free or heavily discounted licenses too.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by mpd on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @09:23PM (#15234699)
And maybe importantly, you can use a personal license at work, on paid projects, etc.

I've never been particularly bullish on Atom or Electron, but I think Jetbrains is going to be eating their lunch for awhile at least.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by jbergens on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @03:10AM (#15236150)
You have to buy a personal license yourself, your organization cannot pay for it. I just don't want to pay for work tools, my employer should do that and then it is the higher price.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by pdpi on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @07:07PM (#15243590)
That's fair. Personally, though I could get the business license and expense it, I choose to pay for it as a personal license because I use it personally as well, and I'd be happy to pay the individual license price either way.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by pjmlp on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:44PM (#15231433)
I really would like to see this utopian world where all other professions outside IT also get their tools for free.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by noir_lord on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:59PM (#15231747)
My grandfather was a master carpenter, he had a saying I've always liked "If you use something for more than an hour a day buy the best you can afford".

I've never minded paying for developer tools as long as I could afford them, lots of professionals spend a lot more than we do on tools/professional development.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by disordinary on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @06:40PM (#15233643)
Not to mention this whole society which expects everything for free has made it very hard for a small company to get into the market and innovate.

If you think about how much money you can make from a professional tool and how much productivity it gains you then the price should be a no brainier.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by imtringued on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:41PM (#15232373)
Offtopic: I would also urge you if you want to solder not to buy a cheap soldering iron from radioshack, etc. If you don't have the money for a weller or hakko soldering station then at the very least buy a chinese temperature controlled hakko 936 clone. The difference between a crap iron and a decent temperature controlled iron is gigantic.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by SwellJoe on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:53PM (#15233215)
I used to solder a bunch as a kid, using my dad's Weller gun (which was built like a tank and still worked last I heard, even though it was something like 40 years old). When I bought my own cheap soldering iron "pencil" as an adult for one project, I thought I'd forgotten how to solder. It seemed so hard to get good joints with the cheap iron. The Weller gun wasn't even temperature controlled but it worked. The cheapo pencil iron just didn't get hot enough fast enough to be useful.

Then I bought a mid-range Weller station and things got super easy again. It's about ten years old now and still works fine. It's probably a worthwhile investment, even for rare use. I mean, it's only ~$100 to get a pretty good iron, vs. $20 for garbage.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by cr0sh on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @07:17PM (#15233916)
If I ever could get my lazy butt in gear, I want to make a video to prove that you can solder competently with a cheap and crappy soldering iron.

I have a soldering iron that has to be the cheapest of the cheap, that I've had since 1991; I got it when I went to a local votech electronics school fresh from high school.

It's something like a 35 watt pencil iron, and the tip is janky like nobody's business. You have to wait like 15 minutes for it to heat up. The tip is not in the greatest shape.

But I can tin that puppy up and solder perfectly with it. Now, I'm not saying you could do SMT rework using it, but basic thru-hole is no problem at all. I've assembled tons of things with it over the years.

I also have a couple of older temp controlled irons - and they are great tools as well; honestly, I prefer them over my old iron. But I know, at least for myself, that what iron I use doesn't make a difference in the project, but rather the skills I bring to the table.

As the old saying goes, "a poor craftsman blames his tools"...

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by SwellJoe on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @07:35PM (#15234039)
Sure, I'm a poor craftsman in this regard; I don't solder enough to ever be good at it. But, really, when you've gotta wait 15 minutes for it to heat up, and then after a few joints you have to wait some more because it cooled off in the process...really, is it a good, or even usable, tool?

I merely found it difficult to use the cheap pencil iron to get good results, because good results required a lot more out of me, mostly in the form of patience waiting for it to get hot. Also, I suspect cheap tools have gotten worse since 1991. I have cheap tools I bought in that era that are higher quality than the same brand/model today.

Nonetheless, it's just good advice to use good tools if you do something often. And, sometimes it's good advice to use good tools even if you don't do it often, but expect to do it again in the future (I find myself working on things that require soldering every couple of years, but expect that'll be true for the rest of my life, so I might as well use a decent iron to do it...it's not like they stop working after being stored for a year).

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by H1Supreme on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @10:38AM (#15238681)
Except that your grandpa didn't have to pay a monthly subscription for his hammer. I really dislike the subscription model for tools.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by khedoros1 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:26PM (#15232164)
How did he feel about perpetually renting them? Even if the tool is currently perfect, I don't trust that the company's future plans will align with my future needs; I expect that they'll diverge.

edit: I stand corrected; didn't see the asterisk and the separate page specifying that an active subscription isn't necessary to continue using the current version of the software.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by greenshackle2 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:09PM (#15232741)
If you bother looking at the page you'll know when you buy a yearly subscription (or 12 consecutive monthly) with Jet Brains you automatically get a perpetual license for the current version.

You only need to keep paying if you want to keep getting updates. If you're happy with the current version no one is forcing you to keep paying or keep updating.

I can't speak to all IDEs, but at least with IntelliJ you're not just renting it.

They even give you a helpful info-graphic telling you how to minimize subscription cost if you just want to get a perpetual license for a particular version:

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/article_attachments/203545445...

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by khedoros1 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:43PM (#15233121)
I looked at the page, but didn't read the definition of "perpetual fallback license". Thank you for the clarification.

It still seems bizarre that one standard case is that you pay for a subscription, presumably using version x, and then are pushed down to version x-1 if you didn't subscribe for at least a year under version x.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by greenshackle2 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @06:02PM (#15233295)
Thinking about it a bit more yeah, when you stop subscribing you might have to roll back 12 months of updates on your machine, which is pretty odd. Clearly they want to discourage you from doing it.

At least bug fixes are included:

"The license also includes all bugfix updates, more specifically in X.Y.Z version all Z releases are included."

I can understand giving you the major version at the time you bought the subscription but it's a bit stingy to exclude minor version bumps (Y releases).

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by innocenat on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @02:39AM (#15236034)
It's not minor version bump. JetBrains doesn't use semver. X.Y is typically a major release, with X being the year (e.g. 2017.2)
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by kllrnohj on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @07:23PM (#15233962)
That's an unrealistically forgiving outlook on this.

You're forced to upgrade when the language you're using upgrades. Or the ecosystem around the product evolves. The IDE doesn't live in a vacuum that will work in perpetuity.

It's realistically much closer to renting than buying as once the updates stop it's not that much longer until the product is no longer usable in a modern environment. Simple example would be if you want to use Kotlin 1.1.4 (latest stable) you must be using Intellij 2016.2 or newer to get the corresponding 1.1.4 kotlin plugin. And if you use an older plugin, the IDE will complain at you and things will be buggy and not work right. Similarly since gradle support is built into the IDE at some point that will fail if your IDE is no longer being updated.

It's not realistic to avoid updating the IDE for long. That's why Jetbrains prominently features subscription and yearly renewals - because you're very nearly forced into it.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by ajmurmann on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @12:46AM (#15235625)
You can hardly blame them for this situation though. They obviously have to do work to keep the IDE up to date.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by cr0sh on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @07:25PM (#15233970)
That actually happened with IntelliJ - which is one reason why I'm trying to move over to Atom.

It used to be there was a plugin package to allow you to use IntelliJ for C/C++ development, in addition to all the other languages. That changed, though - and they split CLion off the main branch.

So now - if for instance you want to do NodeJS robotics work, and interface to an Arduino (for example), you would need to use regular IntelliJ with the extensions for javascript, and CLion separately for C/C++ development. Essentially dinging you twice for what should be the same damn product.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them split the javascript portion off into its own editor suite as well.

Atom may not be or have everything that IntelliJ does, but because it is open source, and extensible, and not controlled by a singular entity, I know that I don't have to worry about it changing like that in the future.

Don't get me wrong, though - I like IntelliJ, I think it's a great IDE (started out with PHPStorm). But I think it should have stayed general purpose and extensible, and not lock languages out to move people to another (but essentially the same) IDE. I'd have no problem paying the yearly fee - but I'm not going to pay for it twice.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by rhencke on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:13PM (#15232798)
With all subscriptions 1 year or greater, the JetBrains license grants you an eternal, irrevocable license to whatever version was the latest version at the time your subscription expired (look up perpetual fallback license).

I'm not a fan of their license change either, but calling it perpetual rent is just not correct.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by jbergens on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @03:06AM (#15236139)
Last time I checked it was the FIRST version you could keep forever. I guess they wanted to avoid having people buying a license every other year. I could be mistaken, though.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by noir_lord on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:57PM (#15231707)
https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#edition=personal

119 for Intellij 199 for everything.

I didn't need everything since Intellij with plugins is everything (for the stuff I do).

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by ajmurmann on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @12:42AM (#15235605)
I don't know where these numbers come from. I just looked it up and my subscription to all IDEs JetBrains had to offer is $149/year. Given how much time I spend in RubyMine and IntelliJ this is a great price. Even if I wouldn't every once in a while use AppCode and DataGrip as well.

My only issue is lack of good Rust support.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by charriu on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:50PM (#15231574)
For a company, yes. Individual license is much cheaper, but the devs need to pay for it themselves.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by noir_lord on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:57PM (#15231724)
Exactly this, work would pay for it but I didn't ask, I already had a personal subscription and I use it at least as much outside of work as I do at work.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by ci5er on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:17PM (#15234994)
I get your pain ... the Verilog Synopsis integration party took about a decade to get over, and at $20K+/seat, it hurt to have to shell out for 2~3 independent-but-each-necessary licenses (as an indie).

But, for JetBrains, at $200/seat/year ... as an Indie making anything more than $150/hour, why would you even worry about it?

EDIT: I'm mostly a vi guy, so I don't really know my ass from a hole in the ground w.r.t. IDEs. It's just ridiculous to me that a professional might complain about a $200 tool being expensive. But, your constraints are not my constraints, so I'm probably being overly judgemental. And, for that, if I am, I am sorry.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by pjmlp on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:40PM (#15231352)
Expensive?!?

It is a bargain compared with what I used to pay for programming tools during the 90's.

In other professions people care to buy their tools.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by tootie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:16PM (#15234988)
Like when you used to have buy your compilers.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by wolfgke on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:09PM (#15231894)
> In other professions people care to buy their tools.

JetBrains' tools have to be rented.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by electrum on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:22PM (#15232106)
> JetBrains' tools have to be rented.

That's not correct. JetBrains subscriptions come with a perpetual fallback license for the version available when you purchased the subscription. This is basically the same as the previous model where you would buy a license for a specific version with free upgrades for some period of time afterwards. Most people would continuously buy the upgrade license they wanted to stay on the latest version.

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What...

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by dbb01 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:20PM (#15232079)
This isn't accurate. When you now pay for a year long "subscription" you own that version and can use it indefinitely. Exactly like buying a version-license previously.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by digitalsanctum on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:45PM (#15231466)
Relative to the productivity gains from IntelliJ it's well worth the price. It's pretty much the only development tool I gladly pay for.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by Others on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @09:40PM (#15234801)
This is tangential, but the IntelliJ Rust plugin is fantastic, and just got officially supported! (http://intellij-rust.github.io)
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by rootlocus on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @03:56AM (#15236338)
If you check the changelog [1] you'll see the rust plugin has been officially support for a little over a year.

1. https://intellij-rust.github.io/thisweek/

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by Others on Thursday September 14, 2017 @12:13AM (#15244955)
I meant "officially supported by JetBrains" (https://intellij-rust.github.io/2017/07/31/changelog-47.html)
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by giancarlostoro on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @08:32PM (#15234416)
Dunno I used to think it was, for businesses. But if you buy your own personal license you're paying a lot less than you would for Visual Studio overall. I was fortunate to have a discount for having had a student license, so I got like 40% off the price tag or something. I paid under $200 for software that allows me to make thousands every year. Not only do you get all those fancy Java IDE's but you get ReSharper and the whole family for Visual Studio. I say it's underpriced, and every year I renew they lower the price, but my license is perpetual the moment I stop renewing for a year. I think if they charged me $300 a year I'd still find it worth it considering all they give me in return. I'm able to be much more productive in not just .NET, but Python, Java, JavaScript, PHP and other languages, and hopefully someday a Rust IDE comes out of their workshop.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by nine_k on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @06:38PM (#15233618)
I don't remember if IntelliJ Community Edition's license disallows usage of third-party plugins for languages already coered by JetBrains's paid products.

If not, anyone can create e.g. a free and open Python or Ruby IDE inside the familiar IntelliJ IDE experience, e.g. by adopting IDE-like software used in Emacs, Vim, or Sublime.

See also: language servers. I think that the future is "the editor of your choice" + "the language servers you can afford". JetBrains's IDE is already modular, but these modules just happen to run in the same Java process. This limitation of IDE architecture can be overcome, and companies like Microsoft keep pouring efforts into it.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by manyxcxi on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:17PM (#15230888)
I love IntelliJ for most languages. When it comes to JS/HTML/CSS though I use VS Code...

I find it's IntelliSense and TypeScript support superior. Especially when I'm on a project using webpack/sass/etc. IDEA just seems to get lost. It either can't find a method definition or is constantly complaining about various things.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by Rotareti on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @05:01AM (#15236619)
Did you try WebStorm? Idea is a Java IDE. AFAIK you don't get the same experience from Idea+Plugins that you get from the dedicated version (in this case WebStorm). If you extend Idea with plugins you get what's available for the limited community editon.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by manyxcxi on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:43AM (#15247895)
I have IDEA Ultimate, which, as you said, allows the same functionality via plugins but isn't the same experience.

WebStorm is somewhat better, but I'm not going to pop for another license when I technically already have that functionality covered.

I haven't tried WebStorm since 2016, so my last experience is dated but I've just gotten to like VS Code for front end work.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by carlmr on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @02:34PM (#15230117)
I program a lot in C, F# and Python. I mostly use visual studio code (electron app similar to Atom, but better). It's great if you're using languages which don't come in one IDE, or where you need to pay for the IDE (F#).
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by aquaticor on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:05PM (#15230654)
Take a look at full Visual Studio, it's a much better IDE for F#, the free version beats vscode for F# dev hands down. Though I like VS code for its portability.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by babaganoosh89 on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:02PM (#15230598)
Not true for Javascript, the cool thing about VS code is that it will automatically download the typescript definition files even if you aren't using typescript. So you get much nicer hover and autocompletion than intelliJ/webstorm.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by Rotareti on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @05:06AM (#15236645)
I'm not using JS anymore, but when I did I remember IntelliJ Idea using the typescript definitions as well. There was a section for it in the settings menu.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by ArlenBales on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:36PM (#15232295)
He did say IDE, VS code is still considered an editor (like Atom, Sublime Text, etc.)
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by hobarrera on Saturday September 16, 2017 @03:04PM (#15266118)
>>>> JetBrains is now the de facto best IDE for Java, JavaScript, Python

I can't speak for most languages, but for Python it seems to be very far from the "de facto"; I've only seen a few people, and most people strongly dislike it.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by robohamburger on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @03:22PM (#15230984)
I still use vim over pycharm and I write quite a bit of python and spent quite a bit of time using pycharm and setting it up. Most big IDE features break down in large code bases and for simple code bases, vim's python support is fine.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by yaseer on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @05:34PM (#15233038)
I agree; I use intellij for the consistent experience across languages.

It's difficult to beat vim (or Emacs) for quick edits. But for deep-dive coding I'm gladly sold in on jetbrains.

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by OJFord on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:48PM (#15232478)
> Visual Studio...

Isn't it basically an Atom alternative? What makes it, and not Atom, an IDE rather than 'augmented text editor', to borrow GP's phrasing?

Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by PetitPrince on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:55PM (#15232575)
I think you are mixing up Visual Studio Code, the free and open source text editor with Visual studio, the closed source and paid IDE.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by OJFord on Monday September 18, 2017 @03:39PM (#15278842)
Ah, guilty as charged, thanks!
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by sasmithjr on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:55PM (#15232590)
Not sure if they mean Visual Studio or Visual Studio Code. VSCode is an Electron-based editor similar to Atom; full-fat Visual Studio does support many languages by itself, but it's Windows only.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by disordinary on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @06:47PM (#15233699)
That's not 100% true, there is Visual Studio Mac which is based off Xamarin Studio but has a lot of the internals from Visual Studio in it like InteliSense and Roslyn
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by mmgutz on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @08:52PM (#15234541)
defacto "BEST" for Javascript? I think you would be suprised how many people do not use JetBrains products at all if you went to a JavaScript meetup.
Re:Introducing Atom-IDE by tootie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:18PM (#15235000)
Best != most used. I think most Java developers still use Eclipse.