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Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by boundlessdreamz on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:42AM (#15146173)
> fake video preroll ad placements

Can you explain this further? Who is getting defrauded here?

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by x0x0 on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:01AM (#15146230)
Advertisers.

Preroll ads are valuable because people are mostly paying attention. eg you went to youtube to watch X, and they show you 15 seconds of swiffer beforehand.

The problem is there aren't enough preroll ad slots available to satisfy demand.

Therefore, companies invent them. One thing I know people are doing is this: film a video every day. Talk about who cares. It could be upcoming movies; the tv show with dragons; whatever. Buy an ad slot. Play your video. Put a preroll or interstitial ad in your video. Tada! You just turned dirt cheap ad inventory into expensive video ad inventory. Of course, if the viewer leaves the page too fast, you lose the money you spent. So this is an arbitrage play.

The problem with manufacturing video ad inventory is that almost all the manufactured stuff is either (1) off onto the side, or (2) not gating something that a viewer wants to see. And hence, they don't receive attention.

Make sense?

Legit video advertisers and publishers are all unhappy about this, because this shitty faked inventory drops the value of the real thing, ie preroll ads in main content that the user wishes to see.

Oh, and publishers get very unhappy because (1) many of them are ok with picture ads but not at all okay with autoplay video ads; (2) if they're going to put autoplay videos on their page and take the hit for (rationally) pissed off users, the pub wants to pocket that $5-$25cpm rather than get paid for still picture ads and let some arbitrager steal the difference.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by eveningcoffee on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:23AM (#15146554)
>Preroll ads are valuable because people are mostly paying attention. eg you went to youtube to watch X, and they show you 15 seconds of swiffer beforehand.

Personal anecdote time.

Preroll ads are the main force for me behind installing the adblocker. I just can not stand something that manipulates my flow. I call it televication of the Internet. It is unbearable.

If for some reason I am not able to block them then I just do not watch them and I am not listening to them (I look elsewhere, say a lalala mantra in your mind).

I also taught my family to do so.

So advertisers actually loose in the long term.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by stordoff on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:39AM (#15146617)
> Preroll ads are the main force for me behind installing the adblocker

They are certainly one of the most annoying classes of ads, which is why I was exceptionally annoyed when Amazon put one before a Prime video I was watching a few days ago.

Granted it was for an Amazon product, but any sort of ad in a paid service is _extremely_ annoying.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by oliv__ on Friday September 01, 2017 @08:28AM (#15147771)
I've always hated how you pay ~$8-15 for a movie ticket, and then have to sit through half an hour of ads. What the hell??
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by kuschku on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:18AM (#15148096)
The issue of that is that for the first month, between 40 and 90% of the ticket price goes directly to the studio (not to the cinema). Plus you pay (cheapest value for Frozen, English, 2D, 6 months after release) usually at least 8'000€ per week to rent the movie.

So the cinema has to somehow make money – and that is with ads and food.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by Symen on Friday September 01, 2017 @08:53AM (#15147928)
> If for some reason I am not able to block them then I just do not watch them and I am not listening to them (I look elsewhere, say a lalala mantra in your mind).

I've started using a similar strategy on YouTube in order to selectively "protest" against bad ads. Whenever I stumble upon a long unskippable ad or a short very aggressive ad (loud and/or offensive), I mute the video and start reading comments for a while, or I alt+tab to a different video, etc. Sometimes I leave the page if the video (or uploader) is not worth the hassle.

In my mind this can lead to 3 different scenarios:

* Google notices this behavior and decides to enforce heavier regulation on ads (they already killed >30s unskippable ads this year).

* Google notices this behavior and tries to fight it (e.g. by pausing the ad if the volume is not low enough, the Spotify way). In the browser this leads to an arms race that Google can't win. In the worst case I would go back to avoiding all advertising using adblock and/or alternative financing if available (YouTube RED, patreon, etc.)

* Google doesn't react, bad ads lose so much value that most uploaders stop using them. They don't want to alienate their viewers for so little benefit.

We need many people to apply this strategy for this to work. However in the short term content creators still get paid, and I get the personal satisfaction of screwing over bad advertisers.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by pbhjpbhj on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:07AM (#15148403)
Google already pause ad play if you change app/tab focus; my perception is (on Android?) this is a recent change. So you have to have the video ad playing to get to the point when you can skip it. So, like you I turn away - it's really annoying, but that just makes it more attention grabbing.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by Symen on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:07PM (#15149695)
You are right, this does not work as well on mobile (at least on android). There is also no mute button on the YouTube app.

The funny thing is that they also pause videos when changing app/tab (not only ads), because background playback is a YouTube RED "feature". I would understand if YouTube RED was available in more than 5 countries. They have been artificially depriving their users of a basic feature for years and for nothing.

In the meantime I simply avoid watching long YouTube videos on my phone, and use NewPipe to listen to podcasts hosted on youtube (which means no ad revenue...).

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by ashark on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:43AM (#15148700)
> If for some reason I am not able to block them then I just do not watch them and I am not listening to them (I look elsewhere, say a lalala mantra in your mind).

Ah yes, the realization that all the spy-economy-supported content provides vanishingly little value to your life, and that if they managed to actually lock things down so you couldn't block ads it'd harm you not at all to simply stop looking at their stuff. A liberating state of mind.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by undersuit on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:16PM (#15149827)
What am I actually supposed to do in those 15 seconds?
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by ashark on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:40PM (#15150082)
Huh? I mean stop watching the low-value media supported by ads, if you can't skip the ads. We're awash in excellent media. The best humanity's created for the last few millennia. The problem of this age (at least in the developed world) is deciding what not to look at. In that environment, most of the stuff behind 15-second ad videos isn't worth my time if I can't block the ad.

If ad-blocker-blocking gets too good, I could ditch it at an infinitesimal cost to my quality of life. My alternatives are many and could last a few lifetimes even if no new content of any kind were produced at all. News, even? A news habit is of about as much practical value as a soap opera habit. I could drop this stuff like that. No problem. Go ahead and somehow permanently break my adblocker or wall off a large part of the web behind custom protocols and DRM. Bye bye.

[EDIT] the "realization" I meant in my earlier post was that, on examination, one may find that desire to watch/hear/read most ad-supported media is so low that not only is it not a need, it's barely even a want.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by robryan on Friday September 01, 2017 @03:08AM (#15146714)
Twitch gets me which is unfortunate because they are generally providing a good service. They hit you with one of these ads pretty much every time you change channels, no matter how frequently.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by briandear on Friday September 01, 2017 @07:44AM (#15147572)
In flight entertainment on United does the same thing. I practically have the barracuda networks pre-roll memorized by now. But if it helps United provide more content without raising prices, then I am ok enduring a 30 second ad. Content costs money — either the consumer pays directly or an advertiser pays. But people don’t make movies for free — at least not if they want to continue making movies.

Also, ads in YouTube — the content creator enables that so they can get paid.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by dankent on Friday September 01, 2017 @08:16AM (#15147702)
You could always subscribe and get ad free viewing.

That way they can pay for the good service they provide without needing advertisers.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by PeachPlum on Friday September 01, 2017 @03:52AM (#15146866)
Even when you press "pop-out" on the player
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by jdangu on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:57AM (#15146219)
Everyone feels the pain:

Publisher gets paid on a $1 CPM basis while Cedato gets paid $5-10 CPM and pockets the difference.

Advertiser thinks they paid for quality video content preroll but it's actually a tiny rectangle normally used for "display" ads.

Audience is infuriated. Think about what happens on a 4G mobile plan now that VPAID has been fully migrated from Flash to JS...

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by ep103 on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:03PM (#15150928)
The only person who cares about that, though, is the audience. Advertisers as a group don't really care that much. Right now, Online Ad Spend is growing industry wide, so fraud like this is just chalked up as an efficiency loss, on growing market. No one else in the chain cares.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by ec109685 on Saturday September 02, 2017 @05:20AM (#15155067)
The publisher cares because they delivered a worse experience for user for no $
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by erikb on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:49AM (#15146427)
And you can't even install ad blockers on the phone.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by kbart on Friday September 01, 2017 @03:09AM (#15146724)
"And you can't even install ad blockers on the phone."

Nonsense. I've been using Firefox + uBlock Origin on Android for years. There are even browsers/add-ons that can disable JavaScript completely, but I find it too much of a hassle.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by erikb on Friday September 01, 2017 @04:55AM (#15147066)
my mistake, can't edit my comment now. *iphone I mean
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by pmontra on Friday September 01, 2017 @05:41AM (#15147196)
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by briandear on Friday September 01, 2017 @07:38AM (#15147548)
Crystal for iOS as one example. Safari provides support for adblockers in both mobile and desktop.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by shakna on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:52AM (#15146437)
Firefox Mobile, uBlock Origin.

Adblockers are here.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by _pmf_ on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:29AM (#15146575)
Or Brave on Android; it's basically indistinguishable from Chrome (or whatever the Android standard browser currently is called).
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by bnolsen on Friday September 01, 2017 @06:47AM (#15147394)
Just tried this. Other than having to redo all my forums passwords again this browser looks to be a winner. On my phone firefox ran very slowly and hogged too many resources.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by boyce on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:12AM (#15148054)
Try nightly - 57 feels like it has big performance gains on my ageing 1+
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by devcpp on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:00AM (#15146468)
Or root and AdAway if you're looking to block them in other apps as well.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by peteretep on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:02AM (#15146479)
My iPhone has them just fine, and Android being less locked down makes me think it probably does too
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by new299 on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:57AM (#15146677)
It's possible it's more likely on Android.

However I don't think it's a given that it will be prompted by Google, or will continue to be the case.

Google is an advertising company. Android, does not make money through licensing. It makes money by being a vehicle for advertising. Apple on the other hand, make money through selling products. Advertising (on the web) shouldn't make much difference to them, and helps put pressure on the competing platform as well as Adblocking being a potentially valuable feature to help sell their products.

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by erikb on Friday September 01, 2017 @04:55AM (#15147069)
How? I can't install plugins into my Chrome on iPhone 6s.

And you can't switch the default browser so it only helps in 30 % of the cases (when you are not inside Facebook/Twitter/etc and when you are not clicking a link that opens the default browser)

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by PeachPlum on Friday September 01, 2017 @03:50AM (#15146862)
But you can install Brendan Eich's ad-blocking Brave browser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)

Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by erikb on Friday September 01, 2017 @04:56AM (#15147070)
I'll try this one on all my phones. Thanks.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by winterlight on Friday September 01, 2017 @05:25AM (#15147147)
My browsing experience on a mobile phone stepped up greatly since I started using Firefox Focus. You don't even need to mess around with plugins because ad blocking is already a built-in core feature.
Re:Insane state of today's advertising part 3 by ljcn on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:51AM (#15148292)
As others have said, now is actually a really rich time for ad/tracker-blocking browsers:

* Brave

* Firefox Focus

* Ghostery

to name but three.