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Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @12:18PM (#15117684)
one of the founders (Tanay) here - happy to answer any questions. we also put out a new trove of data here: https://athelas.com/publications
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by killjoywashere on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:02PM (#15118147)
Hi, pathologist here.

* How do you account for interstitial fluid expressed into the droplet?

* Do you use the same flags as a CBC analyzer?

* Have you tested blasts?

* Have you tested leukostatic samples (very high white count: over 100k)?

* Have you validated against platelet clumping?

* Have you validated for basic sources of interference (lipemia, hemolysis, icterus).

* Have you engaged Cerner? Epic? DrChrono? AllScripts? Other EMR providers?

* Have you engaged a pathologist?

Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:10PM (#15120102)
Great questions

-The first line of defense against interstitial fluid is wiping away the first drop (commonly used protocol in most drop test). The inevitable remaining interstitial fluid chunk is then classified out by our image processing models, which have been trained to recognize differences in images based on debris/cell concentration.

-We currently report the WBC, WBC Differential, Platelets, and RBC indices. The flags we're missing are secondary RBC metrics like MCH and RDW estimates but we have plans to roll these out soon as well.

-Yes, we've run both bench and clinical testing on patients with north of 100k white blood cells - the image processing can segment out cell chunks in these crowded samples better than traditional flow cytometry. Not in the currently published studies, but some good data coming out about this soon.

-We've run basic initial tests on platelet clumping (artificially induced in certain diluted samples), and present in clinical samples. Since our model looks at the boundaries of these platelet cells, we have a lot less trouble with this than flow cytometry/beckman and even human pathologists. Still, we're working to find more samples with clumping to define the limits of detection on this front.

-We've done interference studies with Hemolysis, EDTA, not with lipemia and icetrus. These are on our list of clinical samples to source as well.

-We've begun working with some of these EMR providers, the good thing is many of them have sandboxes to get setup in relatively quickly. The larger ones do have long, long-term engagement timelines.

-We work with dozens of pathologists to help review results, train the system further, and in general go over good morphology practice. Has definitely been a core part of our strategy.

Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by healthenclave on Monday August 28, 2017 @02:01PM (#15118689)
Wow great to have a Pathologist in the Room.

I think this device is super awesome and I was trying to come up with something similar a few years back.

The primary concerns is that one of the first things I learnt in Med School is that capillary blood is way less reliable in compare to venous blood for something as important as CBC.

Not sure how they are accounting for the issue that the sample they have isn't the best one to get started with.

ps: killjoywashere how do I get in touch with you ? Am at Asingh [at] healthenclave.com

Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by evanb on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:01PM (#15118131)
Isn't "athelas" Tolkien-inspired? The Tolkien estate isn't super friendly with regards to this kind of reference. Try to find out how much Palantîr paid for an agreement with them (my understanding is that it's a very large number), and ask if that really makes sense...
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by icebraining on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:40PM (#15118486)
The Tolkien estate is full of shit, they have no leg to stand on. Names aren't copyrightable and the book certainly doesn't give them a trademark over these industries.
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by jasode on Monday August 28, 2017 @12:26PM (#15117771)
Can one device be shared by multiple people?

What are the details behind $20/month? E.g. is the machine "rented"? Or is the $20 for consumables?

Is it connected to the cloud? (In other words, is the machine-learning algorithm's "counting" happening in the device or are you uploading image data to a server for analysis?)

Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:15PM (#15120136)
The $20/mo is for the device and the test strips per month, as such the device is rented. Each subscription comes with 10 test strips a month usable between different users!
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by AndrewKemendo on Monday August 28, 2017 @12:22PM (#15117729)
You guys definitely seem to be on the right track - especially with being open about your results in light of the whole Theranos debacle. I remember an article a few months ago describing your CV/ML based approach and think it's a great use case. Good luck.
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by jforman on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:02PM (#15118139)
Did you submit a 513(g) to get classified as (apparently) Class I Non-Exempt?
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:12PM (#15120112)
We're working under the 510k Class 1 and Class 2 framework
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by Balgair on Monday August 28, 2017 @03:46PM (#15119485)
What are false-positive and false negative rates for Circulating Tumor Cells with your tech?

Do you control for age and other bio-factors and how?

Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:13PM (#15120120)
CTCs are a very early application in our tech and one that we're excited to continue working on. We have some strong sample share relationships with Stanford and sensitivity/stage/specificity testing is in its early stages right now. Will publish on the data page when more information
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by Balgair on Tuesday August 29, 2017 @02:37PM (#15126569)
Look at CU-Anschutz as well, CCTSI is very active in CTCs.
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by subcosmos on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:08PM (#15118199)
As a former anemia patient and deep learning practitioner, I'm really rooting for you guys. This is a great approach.
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by ttandon on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:10PM (#15120107)
Thank you!
Re:Stanford Dropout Says Blood Startup Won't Be Another Ther... by notatoad on Monday August 28, 2017 @01:27PM (#15118376)
did you purposely pick a name that sounds kind of like Theranos just to mess with people?