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Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by JoshTriplett on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:01PM (#15076346)
> Property manager for a rental home

They're useful if you don't want to deal with individual tenants, ever, and just want to treat any issues that arise as an expense. Otherwise, you have to be prepared to treat a rental as a part-time job.

(That said, they can also be terrible.)

> Title/Escrow company in a home sale

Escrow seems like a critically valuable service. It shouldn't be as intertwined as it is with a pile of other services, but I wouldn't want to do without it.

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by sharkweek on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:04PM (#15076371)
I don't think I've ever seen a longer list of arbitrary fees than when I signed all the paperwork when buying a house. It felt like death by a thousand cuts with dozens of little $50-500 line items that seemed so arbitrary. When I would ask about them, I basically got told, "do you want the home or not..."
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by dmoy on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @06:01PM (#15076749)
title checking can also be very important, because you don't want to fork over hundreds of thousands of dollars and then have the sale be invalidated because of title issues years down the road. Depending on what state you're in, this can be a non-trivial process to figure out.
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by deelowe on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:00PM (#15077672)
Because most home purchase happen on the order of decades. A large percentage of property being purchased has titles that go back 50 years or more. Understanding who bought what when with what covenants using what surveys etc... isn't a straightforward task.
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by chx on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @12:00AM (#15078432)
o_O what, your country/state/whatever jurisdiction doesn't have a title office?? Both Hungary and Canada (I am a citizen and real estate owner in both) has a title office where I can request the title online and it has a complete, official history.

Edit: Thanks for the downvote(s), care to explain where I am wrong?

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by deelowe on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:28AM (#15081334)
Title transfer is more complicated than simply trusting what's listed on a document. Property, covenants, business/family arrangements and other factors change over time. All of this needs to be checked as part of the sale (or at least should be).
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by chx on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @11:48AM (#15082456)
Respectfully: what the...? The title in the title office (or whatever else they call it) is the official truth. If someone, say, has a right to use the property until their death, that's a note on the title, not a piece of paper on the drawer. If it's not on the title, no one cares about your business or family agreement. If you contest the title based on such an agreement in a court of law you will always lose, in the most literal sense of the word, the title is all there is. I do not understand a word of what you are saying. What's going on in the USA?

Look https://ltsa.ca/property-information/what-information-title here, all Statutory rights of way, Easements, Covenants, Judgments, Leases, Claims of Builders Liens are on the title.

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by deelowe on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:48PM (#15084954)
When you take into account titles can have multiple leins, land can change, covenants can change, legal entities can come and go (divorce, death, business closure), banks come and go and debt is sold and a whole host of things up to and including outright fraud, simply relying on the title is often enough, but sometimes not.

Case in point, I just bought some land that I intend to build on. There was an easement on the original lot before it was subdivided. That easement was never updated to reflect the new subdivided properties. It didn't need to be, because it only applied to structures on the land, of which there were none. Due the way the covenants work for the county, where this easement was placed (my lot of the neighbors) would determine whether I can build a house on the lot. This was discovered during the title search and we had to get the county to make a decision, which required zoning consulting with a judge, before we could purchase the property.

Had I purchased this lot without a title search, I could have went ahead with financing construction and perhaps even broken ground, before this was discovered. Even planning and zoning missed it originally. Additionally, given that this was technically a dispute, if I had not done this due diligence, it's entirely possible the neighbor could have made a case for the easement and I would have been stuck with a court case which is always a gamble.

Trust me, I do a lot of real estate on the side and the few hundred dollars you pay for title insurance is well worth it when these types of issues come up. The last thing you want to deal with is going to court with your soon to be neighbors over property line, easement, covenant etc... disputes after you've already purchased the property and are forced to live with the consequences (best case your neighbors hate you, worse you're stuck with a dud property). It's a small price to pay for what is likely the largest purchase you'll make.

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by robrenaud on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @07:25PM (#15077199)
Why isn't this computerized and super easy?
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by brianwawok on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @08:55PM (#15077637)
How do you computerize a hand written note between two guys in 1800 and stored in a bank?

Title insurance is dumb but in some form its pretty nice. Likely overpriced by an order of magnitude or so.

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by dingaling on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:50AM (#15079717)
When I paid-off my mortgage in the UK I was disappointed not to receive the title deeds on paper.

In the past few years the land registry agency here has been encouraging lenders to scan-in old documents and destroy the paper originals, so the only active indication of ownership is a record in a database. They call this 'dematerialisation'.

I can only hope they have an excellent versioning and backup strategy.

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by brianwawok on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:48AM (#15081487)
Oh man can you imagine that DR scenario.

"Umm, we lost all records of deeds for a city. Please resubmit your land claims to our office..."

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by kasey_junk on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @01:11PM (#15083247)
Chicago dealt with this. Its actually how the title service monopoly that exists there came into being.

https://cmetro.ctic.com/pages/chicago-title-history.aspx

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by brianwawok on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:11PM (#15086821)
Although oddly enough when I moved out of Chicago.. my Indiana title search was not significantly cheaper. Still a big rip.
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @07:32PM (#15077215)
In short, as I understand, because history, cost, and the Constitutional priority of property rights over administrative convenience.
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by JoshTriplett on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:16PM (#15076473)
Agreed completely. I don't think escrow is one of them, but many of them are completely ridiculous.
Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by mankash666 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:05PM (#15076383)
Escrow is a valuable instrument, but there fees charged for it today is unwarranted.

In the future, escrows will be handled by smart contacts for a lot cheaper, not people.

As for property manager, with the surfeit of online tools for everything from listing, screening tenants to rent payment, their value is significantly diminished

Re:SEC Is Studying Spotify's Plan to Bypass IPO in NYSE Listing by JoshTriplett on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:16PM (#15076469)
> Escrow is a valuable instrument, but there fees charged for it today is unwarranted.

Agreed.

> In the future, escrows will be handled by smart contacts for a lot cheaper, not people.

Seems exceptionally unlikely. That doesn't work unless all the infrastructure they interface with all uses the same underlying resolution system; otherwise, someone has to provide a bridge, and that makes the "smart" contract effectively toothless. Half the job of escrow is to deal with a giant pile of legacy systems.

> As for property manager, with the surfeit of online tools for everything from listing, screening tenants to rent payment, their value is significantly diminished

"property manager as a service" seems like a fine concept, but there will still be many people who do not want to do that work themselves. By all means, be a "virtual" organization, but someone still needs to have a rolodex of repair services to call when someone needs their air conditioning fixed in the middle of the summer.