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Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by claudius on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:02AM (#15071911)
Any submission of data requires the transmission of an IP address, which is personal data and necessitates appropriate protection.

I very much hope that the Debian maintainers (and hopefully also the guys preparing Fennec in F-Droid) will disable such data collection mechanisms, either completely or hidden behind an explicit opt-in instead of the opt-out suggested in the e-mail.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by acdha on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:04AM (#15072493)
> Any submission of data requires the transmission of an IP address, which is personal data and necessitates appropriate protection.

Do you have a citation for that broad assertion? My understanding is that this is highly variable across legal jurisdictions and even in Europe, which typically leads the way in privacy, it's not that simple. See e.g. https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/court-confirms-... discussing an EU Court of Justice ruling that had two requirements: the ISP can link that IP address to an individual AND the website operator can get that information from the ISP.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by ThePhysicist on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:39AM (#15072821)
Within the new European GDPR framework, IP addresses are to be considered as personally identifiable information, so the concern is warranted. What's decisive when characterizing an information as identifiable or not is not the fact of being actually able to perform the de-anonymization of the information (e.g. via the ISP in case of an IP address), but the mere possibility of it.

Legally though Firefox would be allowed to collect this anonymous data from the user by having him/her send the data e.g. to an API endpoint they provide via IP-based communication, they would just not be allowed to associate the data with the IP address of the user submitting the data. In the end, it comes down to trusting the party that collects the data, at least if they don't perform anonymization of the IP address via other means, e.g. by passing the information through a third party proxy server.

BTW, GDPR does forbid to turn on such data collection by default (privacy by default), so they would be required to get the explicit opt-in from the user for that.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by joegosse on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @11:37AM (#15073439)
>Within the new European GDPR framework, IP addresses are to be considered as personally identifiable information,...

My understanding is that many of these details are yet to be settled with GDPR. The case referenced above was not interpreted under GDPR, which has yet to take effect. The definitions of personally identifiable data data rather vague, and precedent has not been set. A quick search showed conflicting opinions, but one perspective to consider is quoted below:

> In addition, businesses should note that Recital 26 to the recently adopted EU General Data Protection Regulation ("GDPR") states that the test for whether a person is "identifiable" (considered in detail above) depends upon "all the means reasonably likely to be used" to identify that person. The CJEU in Breyer did not directly consider the issue of likelihood of identification. If the BRD was not reasonably likely attempt to identify Mr Breyer from his IP address, this could potentially give rise to a different analysis under the GDPR. Consequently, it may be necessary for the CJEU to revisit this issue after enforcement of the GDPR begins on 25 May 2018.

This is a few years old, so if you know of some new decision or regulation that clarifies it would be great to know!

https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/court-confirms-...

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by ThePhysicist on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @02:04PM (#15074909)
The GDPR does not provide a list of data types that are considered personal or not personal, instead it uses a definition which states what criteria need to be met for data to be personal and gives a list of relevant categories, which explicitly includes "online identifiers":

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/

Now, you could of course argue that often it's not possible to infer the identity of a person given an IP address (e.g. because it is a dynamically allocated IP address by an ISP or an IP address of a proxy server through which many users connect to the Internet) and therefore store it, it would be very hard to impossible though (IMHO) to ascertain that none of the IP addresses which you store could be used to identify a specific person (what e.g. if there are 5 % static IPs in your data?). This in turn would make treating all of your IPs as non-personal data a risky business to say the least, as there will almost certainly be a way to identify at least some of your users from their IP addresses. The fact that you don't know about a particular way of doing this identification is not relevant for this.

My advice: If you do not use a very robust method for making sure that all the IPs you store are non-identifiable I would recommend not storing them at all (or at least truncating them to 24 bits, which does also not always eliminate deanonymization risk though).

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by pacifika on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @01:18PM (#15074464)
GDPR was approved on 25th of may 2016 with the IP address defined as the poster above you specified is my understanding
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by sp332 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:14AM (#15072586)
It might not be legally protected, but that doesn't change how sensitive it is.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by marcosdumay on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @02:17PM (#15075035)
What's up with calling obvious stuff by "broad assertion"?

Are you saying that people can not be identified by their IP address?

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by acdha on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @03:23PM (#15075558)
Because it's neither obvious nor globally true. Legal status varies around the world and from a technical perspective an IP address on its own doesn't usually identify a person unless you have other information — account data, correlated data from other sites, etc. — and things like NAT and public wifi make that necessary to reliably link activity.

I think it's important to talk about this issue – especially the importance of not storing it long-term — but from my perspective the real concern is the industry dedicated to linking and sharing your online activity. Without that an IP has little value and with it they can deanonymize most people without using IPs.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by kuschku on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:42AM (#15072256)
> Any submission of data requires the transmission of an IP address, which is personal data and necessitates appropriate protection.

And requires an opt-in under EU law, which makes this entire thing even more ridiculous.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by codefined on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:50AM (#15072330)
Then don't send the correct source IP address, with simple statistics gathering like this I hardly expect they require a response. It would mean there would be no personal data whatsoever.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by pfg on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:08AM (#15072525)
Most ISPs filter spoofed IP addresses nowadays[1]. Even if your ISP doesn't prevent it, NAT might. You wouldn't get a whole lot of responses this way, and there'd be a strong bias because of regional differences w.r.t. filtering.

[1]: https://spoofer.caida.org/summary.php

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by kuschku on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:53AM (#15072363)
How would you do that, though? The browser has to open a socket to something to do this, after all. And that already is a violation.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by Ajedi32 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:01AM (#15072458)
You'd just send a UDP packet with a spoofed source address and forget about it. There's no need to open any sort of 2-way connection for data that's only being transmitted in one direction (from browser to metrics server).
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by moosingin3space on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:05AM (#15072500)
You could transmit the telemetry through Tor.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by sp332 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:16AM (#15072603)
Tor is blocked in some places and viewed as very suspicious in others. If you're already in a place where you're trying not to draw attention to yourself, using Tor might not a good option.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by throwaway2048 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:04AM (#15072483)
This isnt how tcp/ip works
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by wongarsu on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @11:34AM (#15073409)
With udp/ip it would work, if none of the routers on the way to the destination filters spoofed IPs.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by Ajedi32 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:57AM (#15072417)
Wouldn't spoofing IP addresses risk the data packets being filtered out by ISPs or other upstream network providers? IMO if keeping IP addresses hidden is a concern, it'd be better to use something like TOR.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by yuhong on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:55AM (#15072401)
Does an IP address actually require an opt-in? And if it does, does it only apply if it is being stored?
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by claudius on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:03AM (#15072474)
Yes[1], no[2]. An IP address is "personal relationships" data and collecting, processing or using such data is prohibited unless allowed by law or the concerned person gives consent.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesdatenschutzgesetz#Types_...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesdatenschutzgesetz#Overvi...

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by yorwba on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:43AM (#15072851)
The way I interpret this, if you don't collect, process or use the IP address beyond it being incidentally involved in the transmission of anonymized data, it shouldn't require explicit consent.

Otherwise literally everything that connects to the internet in some way would have to treated in that way, and that's not how the law is currently enforced.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by Ajedi32 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:23AM (#15072664)
> Any submission of data requires the transmission of an IP address

Not true. Tor has demonstrated that it's entirely possible to transmit data over the internet without revealing your IP address to the party you're transmitting to.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by quickben on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @02:29PM (#15075153)
At a heavy latency cost, and under dubious asumption that regular people control all exit nodes.
Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by Ajedi32 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @02:50PM (#15075324)
Actually no, it doesn't matter who controls the exit nodes as long as your only concern is keeping your IP private. (Exit nodes can indeed do bad things to unencrypted traffic, but that's irrelevant for this use case.)

Latency also doesn't matter here; this telemetry could take 5 minutes to reach its destination and it wouldn't matter, so long as the data is eventually received.

Re:Studying how Firefox can collect additional data in a pri... by quickben on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @03:04PM (#15075426)
Hmm, I've never thought of that. I like your idea.