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Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by aiyodev on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:47AM (#15015835)
As a long term owner of Bitcoin, I can say this is the absolute worst time to start investing in it. It's development has been taken over by a group of mentally unstable developers with weird personal agendas and beliefs. The official Bitcoin website and subreddit are heavily censored and are no longer a reliable source of information. It's widely reported elsewhere that their moderator stole millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin from users.

There are other cryptocurrencies that deserve attention but I won't mention them here so I don't look like a shill. Be wary of the 4chan crowd who seem to be everywhere hyping obscure currencies to get rich off of pump-and-dump schemes.

If you're going to invest in a cryptocurrency, thoroughly research it before buying. Trust nothing on an official website or forum. Verify everything you read on public forums.

And never leave your money at exchanges. The #1 rule of cryptocurrency is this: Coins are not in your possession until you are the only one with the private keys.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by lz400 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:44AM (#15016255)
For anyone reading this, don't take this comment as gospel, or the comments disagreeing. There are 2 factions, they both generally hate each other and there's an incredible amount of shilling, astroturfing, etc. From both sides. There are also genuine people in both sides. Blockstream, the company that employs some of the current core devs are the devil for some, saviors for others. That "moderator", Theymos, is a knowledgeable and fair guy for some, a petty tyrant and thief for others. If you go to the main subreddits for both factions, they spent most of their time taking digs at the other faction and quoting whoever supports their position, no matter how silly their arguments are. There's very strong groupthink and tribalism and to me it looks dangerously like the_donald or something like that.

I don't have a dog in this fight. In fact it's so confusing I don't know which of both factions has a better case. But I'm pretty sure the wild accusations both fling at each other are in many cases heavily based on agendas. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by tradersam on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:52AM (#15015846)
> As a long term owner of Bitcoin, I can say this is the absolute worst time to start investing in it. It's development has been taken over by a group of mentally unstable developers with weird personal agendas and beliefs. The official Bitcoin website and subreddit are heavily censored and are no longer a reliable source of information. It's widely reported elsewhere that their moderator stole millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin from users.

I don't agree with this. It may be a bad time to start investing, due to the price, but Bitcoin Cash is the corrupted currency in my opinion. Roger and his cronies were spamming the network for months, trying to create demand and when he finally got his big block coin, he wouldn't sell more than a few BTC for it. He's all about the money, along with Bitmain. I concede some core developers (like Luke-jr) are not the greatest, but they've been in control since day one.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by aedron on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:59AM (#15016090)
> In control since day one

I don't know much about bitcoin, but I do know that the original people who took over from Satoshi (Gavin Andresen, Mike Hearn) were ousted in rather ugly and public ways a couple of years ago. As far as Roger Ver is concerned, I believe he is also one of the earliest people in the space.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the people currently leading bitcoin development originally told Satoshi (on the crypto mailing list) that bitcoin would never work (Greg Maxwell and Adam Back both).

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by RandVal30142 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:59AM (#15015883)
>Roger and his cronies were spamming the network for months

For fucks sake. Show the "spam," track it to an individual. The blockchain is transparent yet no one has done this.

This is what my other comment was about. Named users in the community have been made into horrific caricatures who are the basis for conspiracies no one is able to prove despite the transparency of Bitcoin itself.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by keymone on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @05:43AM (#15016734)
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#all

May was the peak of controversy, arguments and discussions about future of scaling bitcoin. core vs unlimited node count, miner support, vendor/merchant support - nobody knew how would things turn out.

throughout that time one of main arguments was that blocks were full and mempool (unconfirmed transactions) was gigantic.

the moment camps settled on agreeing to disagree - mempool was gone.

feel free to continue pretending this all was simply a coincidence.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by RandVal30142 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @06:04AM (#15016840)
No seriously, show the transactions you consider to be spam. Classify them in some tangible way, then identify the users behind them.

The specific claim was that it was from "Roger Ver and his cronies," not that a mempool backlog exists.

Show the transactions you claim to be "spam," and identify the persons behind them. Go do it.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by keymone on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @07:33AM (#15017200)
a simple glance on that graph with knowledge of notable events in bitcoin timeline screams that the "omg blocks full mempool gigantic" argument is fishy. i don't really care that i can't convince you without spending hours and hours satisfying your standard of evidence, i have better things to do.
Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by RandVal30142 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:38PM (#15020425)
>a simple glance

Show the damned transactions.

> with knowledge of notable events

The claim was very specific, show the damned transactions.

>i don't really care that i can't convince you

Because you can't show what the "spam" is let alone show who is "spamming."

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by tradersam on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:02PM (#15020700)
I can't prove the transactions were Ver's anymore than I can prove some are yours.

But as keymone said, the timeline of events is fishy. How come they stop when the block size debate does, or Roger uses them as examples in post after post of why Core needed to be replaced because of this huge backlog. When, you can look at the transactions yourself, most are dust, and they peak when the debate does.

I can't prove it, sure. But myself and many others think this because it is logical, and it sounds like there is no changing your mind so we'll stop here.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by RandVal30142 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:56AM (#15015869)
> It's development has been taken over by a group of mentally unstable developers with weird personal agendas and beliefs.

They literally want to edit Satoshi's bitcoin whitepaper[1]. One of the supporters of editing the paper is theymos, who runs the censored Reddit sub.

I was banned there after reporting a violent user who was urging the torture of Jihan Wu[2] of Bitmain. Violent invective and hate directed towards races & nationalities somehow are not insta-moderated while mundane comments about Bitcoin itself get mod-queued forever? Its out of control there.

That lot is not to be trusted.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/issues/1325

[2] http://archive.is/oDdq5

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by colordrops on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:34AM (#15016011)
This is a great breakdown of the history of recent craziness:

https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/infor...

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by AgentME on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @04:37AM (#15016450)
>It's development has been taken over by a group of mentally unstable developers with weird personal agendas and beliefs.

Weird personal agendas like thinking SegWit is a good upgrade for Bitcoin? Skip the ad hominem.

>It's widely reported elsewhere that their moderator stole millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin from users.

Is this about theymos being donated a ton of bitcoins to host and improve some forum software back when they were worth nothing, and then using it for that? People are still on that witchhunt after all these years?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mcdb4/thermos_is_... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23crla/rtechnology... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23o0hs/an_rbitcoin...

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by xor1 on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:14AM (#15015936)
>There are other cryptocurrencies that deserve attention but I won't mention them here so I don't look like a shill.

Shit, I'd appreciate it if you named some. I'm actually planning on putting my entire next paycheck towards crypto. Currently eyeing Neo even though I apparently missed the boat by not buying it when it was called ant.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by Casseres on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:55AM (#15016084)
I'll name one: Monero. It's not a fork of Bitcoin. It's based on CryptoNote. Unlike Bitcoin which is public and traceable, Monero's address balances are private and the transactions are not traceable. It is fairly mined (no premine or instamine).

There's a lot of interesting tech/code behind it. Check out the Monero subreddit and/or start here: https://www.monero.how/

I learned about Monero when someone else mentioned it in a comment here on HN earlier this year. After doing my own research, I believe Monero was and still remains the best solution available to fulfill the requirements of a decentralized digital currency.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by tradersam on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:21AM (#15015965)
Litecoin is extremely undervalued. Ethereum has an incredibly bright future, Monero is an incredible tool for privacy.

Check out bitfinex.com and start trading pairs there. They have a description under every currency that should help.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by panarky on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:40AM (#15016032)
It wasn't long ago that crypto prices on Bitfinex were quite a lot higher than other exchanges because you couldn't withdraw national currencies [0].

Are their banking issues all resolved now?

Also, if you're domiciled in the US, Bitfinex won't even do business with you [1].

For US customers who what to be legal, Gemini seems pretty solid and verifies new accounts quickly, though they only support Bitcoin and Ethereum [2].

[0] https://www.coindesk.com/spreads-widen-bitcoin-exchanges-ami...

[1] https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/216

[2] https://gemini.com/

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by tradersam on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:04AM (#15016115)
I know this, but you can still use Bitfinex by depositing crypto and using a VPN. Not really "illegal".

Gemini is great, but they are slow to verify and as you stated very limited on your trading pairs.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by acchow on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:50AM (#15016072)
> Litecoin is extremely undervalued.

How did you decide this?

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by tradersam on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:05AM (#15016121)
It is faster that Bitcoin (~2.5min avg block time vs ~10min), has a vibrant community, and still very secure. Easier entry price, and you can spend $5 without a $3 fee, or any fee at all.

It also already has SegWit and has for months.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:33AM (#15016225)
"Easier entry price" is a non-argument, it's always been known Bitcoin would become expensive and trading in single BTC would not be viable; that's why BTC and other cryptocurrencies are expressed in floating point numbers / Satoshis. You can buy 1 Litecoin or 0.01 Bitcoin (example), doesn't matter that much other than having a full number. But the investment price is the same.
Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by acchow on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @04:19AM (#15016392)
Hopefully transaction fees will start to go down once off-chain transactions start becoming a thing.
Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by iDemonix on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:20AM (#15015960)
I keep looking at Neo but not sure I've already missed out
Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by andirk on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:30AM (#15016000)
it's showing a little dip now as of writing, if that's what you wanted.
Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by Temasik on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @02:58AM (#15016088)
Read this until fully understood

https://github.com/EOSIO/Documentation/blob/master/Technical...

And decide

For investment only outlook

Token Model and Resource Usage

PLEASE NOTE: CRYPTOGRAPHIC TOKENS REFERRED TO IN THIS WHITE PAPER REFER TO CRYPTOGRAPHIC TOKENS ON A LAUNCHED BLOCKCHAIN THAT ADOPTS THE EOS.IO SOFTWARE. THEY DO NOT REFER TO THE ERC-20 COMPATIBLE TOKENS BEING DISTRIBUTED ON THE ETHEREUM BLOCKCHAIN IN CONNECTION WITH THE EOS TOKEN DISTRIBUTION.

All blockchains are resource constrained and require a system to prevent abuse. With a blockchain that uses EOS.IO software, there are three broad classes of resources that are consumed by applications:

Bandwidth and Log Storage (Disk); Computation and Computational Backlog (CPU); and State Storage (RAM). Bandwidth and computation have two components, instantaneous usage and long-term usage. A blockchain maintains a log of all messages and this log is ultimately stored and downloaded by all full nodes. With the log of messages it is possible to reconstruct the state of all applications.

The computational debt is calculations that must be performed to regenerate state from the message log. If the computational debt grows too large then it becomes necessary to take snapshots of the blockchain's state and discard the blockchain's history. If computational debt grows too quickly then it may take 6 months to replay 1 year worth of transactions. It is critical, therefore, that the computational debt be carefully managed.

Blockchain state storage is information that is accessible from application logic. It includes information such as order books and account balances. If the state is never read by the application then it should not be stored. For example, blog post content and comments are not read by application logic so they should not be stored in the blockchain's state. Meanwhile the existence of a post/comment, the number of votes, and other properties do get stored as part of the blockchain's state.

Block producers publish their available capacity for bandwidth, computation, and state. The EOS.IO software allows each account to consume a percentage of the available capacity proportional to the amount of tokens held in a 3-day staking contract. For example, if a blockchain based on the EOS.IO software is launched and if an account holds 1% of the total tokens distributable pursuant to that blockchain, then that account has the potential to utilize 1% of the state storage capacity.

Adopting the EOS.IO software on a launched blockchain means bandwidth and computational capacity are allocated on a fractional reserve basis because they are transient (unused capacity cannot be saved for future use). The algorithm used by EOS.IO software is similar to the algorithm used by Steem to rate-limit bandwidth usage.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by HNNoLikey on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:53AM (#15016284)
It feels like I've missed out on a ton of boats as well but someone pointed out to me a few days ago that three years from now it will feel like today's price was very cheap. If you think about it, cryptocurrency has a relatively minuscule market share compared to fiat. This can be tracked using the M1 rank, as per zero block app, bitcoin currently ranks at 41 with a market cap of 70B. The US dollar in US alone is about 3.5 trillion. One could try to hypothesize just how much of that will be translated into BTC or altcoins but it is obviously very difficult to predict the future in exact terms. It does however signal that cryptos are at a nascent stage.

That said, there are still relatively young coins I'm really looking at investing in this week including NEO and Golem. I'm still trying to get more information on Golem because I think the idea of shared computing power globally is one of the most understated computing revolutions in our age. If anyone has any digestible information on the brass project (Golem), please point it out to me; I still find it a tad arcane.

Other coins to watch/buy are welcome.

Re:What Goldman Is Telling Big Money Clients About Bitcoin by statoshi on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @09:15AM (#15017885)
No one can control or take over Bitcoin development. Similarly, there is no official website or subreddit. This system has no authorities.