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Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by lifeisstillgood on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @05:58AM (#14956147)
Can anyone with more knowledge than me comment?

This seems to be "The NSA (?history of elliptic curve hackery) added code to enable them to snoop on VPNs running on Juniper routers and juniper think they fixed it but didn't"

Are the routers now locked down? Will we ever know? How on earth did someone add to their binary?

Is there a bigger picture here?

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by slackingoff2017 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:04AM (#14956179)
I think the biggest implication is how far they're willing to go to compromise commerical hardware. This could ruin Juniper, a large US company. It's insane that the government allowed them to do this.

The first thing I think of is phone basebands. If they're hacking enterprise firewalls I have to assume they've already exploited the baseband in the vast majority of phones. It's the one place they can stick a software plant over the airwaves.

I think it's time to call for open source basebands, anything else just isn't safe anymore.

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by _jal on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @10:19AM (#14957967)
> I think the biggest implication is how far they're willing to go to compromise commerical hardware.

This.

Phone basebands, the Intel ME[1], NICs, Windows, anything from Cisco; they all have to be considered broken.[1] With Linux, at least there is a public code history, but considering the value of the target, tricky code can't be ruled out, nor can attacks at the distribution/packaging layer.

Vernor Vinge wrote a fun book called _Deepness in the Sky_, which, among other things, explores some implications of untrustworthy computing.

[1] And plenty of things not on that list, and perhaps something on it isn't. But for some risk models, they have to be assumed broken.

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by kbart on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:14AM (#14956222)
Open source baseband only won't be enough, there are plenty of CPUs/MCUs capable of running backdoors/malware spread on any modern board (heck, even battery controller often runs on a full fledged MCU). Until we have an open hardware + software, we will never be safe from government and other well-funded crooks.
Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by jwfxpr on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:57AM (#14956472)
> Open source baseband only won't be enough,

Not sufficient, perhaps, but necessary. A 0-day in baseband firmware seems a helluva lot more attractive a target than in a battery controller MCU.

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by ethbro on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @08:38AM (#14957145)
Exactly. Such is the entire point of a firewall.

If you don't have a remotely exploitable vulnerability, it doesn't scale to global panopticon levels.

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by adrianratnapala on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:51PM (#14963723)
Let not the perfect be the enemy of the good though.

Every time I hear someone asking for some improvement in openness and security, someone jumps in to point out how something else will circumvent it. Fine -- but how is anything going to get done if we sit paralysed a proliferation of worries?

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by wu-ikkyu on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @09:40AM (#14957687)
>It's insane that the government allowed them to do this.

What do you mean by this? The statement seems to imply they had to ask for permission from someone other than themselves?

Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by scott00 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @10:39AM (#14958178)
I think the implication is that after the technical staff came up with the proof of concept, the operation to actually deploy it probably got reviewed by a somewhat senior official charged with making policy. He's expressing more surprise that the policy maker deemed the operation in the best interests of the United States than that the technical staff came up with the idea.
Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by throwasehasdwi on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:15PM (#14959340)
Whoever authorized the operation decided it was worth the many millions of damage it could do to Juniper.
Re:A Systematic Analysis of the Juniper Dual EC Incident [pdf] by hdhzy on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:35AM (#14956351)
NSA backdoored Dual EC that is used by Juniper.