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Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by robrenaud on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:28PM (#14949282)
> They will be hundreds of millions of miles behind in terms of autonomy, and thousands of charging stations behind

Can charging stations not be standardized, like gas stations?

Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by brudgers on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:18PM (#14949818)
In theory, perhaps. The real-estate economics of charging stations versus gas stations seem to work against a similar model. In part because:

1. The fastest turn around times for charging are about 10x the fastest turn around times for fossil fuels. This presents a queuing problem limited by real estate.

2. The typical fossil fuel refilling time allows high turnover in supplemental facilities such as a Quickie Mart (or in many cases the fuel pumps are auxiliary to retail sales as the primary business). The recharge time of an electric vehicle does not support as high a turnover.

3. Fossil fuels allow better arbitrage for business operators. Cheap gasoline can sit onsite or in transit in tanks to be sold later at a higher price. Electricity prices are typically set by a single local provider and electricity cannot be stored.

The real-estate is the real problem. The Tesla charging station near me is on the parking lot perimeter of a shopping mall. It's almost certainly cheap, but not exactly convenient to either the nearest interstate (ten minutes in traffic) nor the stores in the Mall (1/4 mile each way across a sea of asphalt and it's not really a shopping mall anyone would pull of the interstate for).

Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by JVIDEL on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:30PM (#14949941)
Speaking of real estate the EV might actually save a lot of malls since they could convert their parking lots to charging stations and get people to walk around and buy things while they wait
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by brudgers on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:45PM (#14950085)
That might work for Tesla because it targets the leisure class...or at least people with plenty of disposable income. That's not everyone. In the case of the charging stations near me, right now it is 34C and 80% humidity and sunny and the doors are ~0.4 km across a shadeless asphalt parking lot. You could shop for a fresh shirt because you'll want one by the time you reach the air conditioning. Maybe get two because you'll want another when you get back to your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so. But at least it's not currently raining.

Shopping at the mall is great if I don't have to be anywhere any time soon and I've got some money to spend on things I probably don't really need. But having to do so every two hundred miles smells more of nuisance than of pleasure.

Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by Sohcahtoa82 on Monday August 07, 2017 @03:57PM (#14950733)
> your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so.

Just an FYI, you can set a Tesla to keep the interior of the car cool even when you're not in it. I've seen pictures of people leaving notes on their windows telling people not to smash the window to save the dog left inside because the A/C is still running.

And if you're going to be at your destination for several hours, you can still remotely turn the A/C on in preparation for leaving.

Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by brudgers on Monday August 07, 2017 @04:12PM (#14950864)
It's the idea that I'll be spending two hours at the mall when I'm out of go juice, is part of what makes me think the use cases for all electric vehicles are limited. I can fill up a hybrid in ten minutes and get 500 miles of range and I can fill up just about anywhere.
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by anko on Monday August 07, 2017 @06:03PM (#14951642)
Tesla had a battery swap system that was faster than filling a normal car - but it turns out the demand wasn't there. Granted, there is still a disadvantage to doing long distance runs on battery, but it accounts for a relatively small percentage of driving.
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by brudgers on Monday August 07, 2017 @06:25PM (#14951778)
For some people, 200 miles is long distance. My next door neighbor on one side commutes fifty miles each way and uses their car at work. My next door neighbor on the other side commutes about 240 miles round trip three or four days a week. My friend Bill, lives in Montana and drives 130 miles each way to taking his children to the dentist or shopping at Costco. The nearest Tesla super charger is about two hours away from his house. The road to it is closed in winter...from about October until May...but then even sometimes until it gets plowed.

Sure most of my trips are less than 200 miles. But the majority of the miles I drive are on trips of 200+.

Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by bdcravens on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:38PM (#14950030)
In places outside of the valley, it's not uncommon to see traditional vehicles taking up electric spots if it's a convenient parking spot.
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by WorldMaker on Monday August 07, 2017 @04:02PM (#14950779)
It's also not uncommon to see those towed and the language "Parking while charging ONLY" to appear, too. It is a solvable social problem.
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by bdcravens on Monday August 07, 2017 @06:26PM (#14951782)
Of course that's an option. I've never once seen a tow truck anywhere near a charging station, or that kind of verbiage. It says "reserved for EV", but it seems as strongly enforced as the parking spots reserved at retailers for online pickup.
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by WorldMaker on Monday August 07, 2017 @04:03PM (#14950795)
Right, one person's slow turnover (quick buy convenience stores) may be another's high turnover (malls).
Re:Tesla seeks to raise $1.5B to fund Model 3 production by awj on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:36PM (#14949361)
They probably will be, long term. Short term either everyone will support the market leader's charger, or the market leader will patent the charger and charging stations will become pluggable/universal.

I can see no reality in which make-exclusive charging stations are viable.