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Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by adamnemecek on Friday August 04, 2017 @11:58AM (#14929637)
JetBrains is kinda crushing it. I've spent the last two days looking into Kotlin. I didn't realize not only that Kotlin can compile to JS but also that you can interact with say React from it. So you can build a full stack app in it, without ever touching JS. (I think that the JS compilation is still technically in beta but w/e).

https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-fullstack-sample

Combined with the fact that you can use Quasar for Erlang style processes, I think that I found my next web language.

I guess you could achieve this with Scala too but I could never get over the compilation times. Also the Kotlin integration seems somewhat more straightforward.

I also like that the company that makes my IDE also makes the ORM (https://github.com/JetBrains/Exposed) and web framework (https://github.com/Kotlin/ktor). Idk how good these are but I imagine pretty decent.

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by copperx on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:49PM (#14930496)
JetBrains is everything that Embarcadero aspired to be. It's perhaps the only for-profit organization I'm happy to give money to.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by conradfr on Friday August 04, 2017 @07:28PM (#14933223)
I was until their recent insistance to copy Adobe design and removing "distracting" colors in their UI.

Also since their new licence scheme it seems releases quality can be hit or miss.

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by true_religion on Saturday August 05, 2017 @10:16AM (#14935820)
They've always had issues with release quality in my opinion. My tactic is to use the upgraded version side-by-side with the old version, until I feel confident there aren't showstopping bugs... then delete the old version.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by scarface74 on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:39PM (#14930408)
Buying my first Mac in over 10 years to learn iOS development is on my bucket list. I also wanted to use it to play with .Net Core on a Unix environment. I'll gladly give JetBrains more money than I do now for Resharper to use Rider (cross platform C# IDE) and all of their other tools.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by louthy on Friday August 04, 2017 @03:05PM (#14931111)
I really hope they nail it with Rider. I am so sick of Visual Studio. It just gets slower and slower. I have a 20 core machine, with 128gb of RAM and it constantly seizes up for seconds at a time, various components crash randomly, and things sometimes work and sometimes not: Go To Definition for example, or pressing F2 to rename. Whatever it is that suggests I add a missing using sometimes decides it can't do that and instead prefixes the unknown type with the fully qualified name (so it has the namespace, it prefixes the type I wrote, but it can't suggest adding the using). Debugging has been broken too, where sometimes it can't even show me what my local variables are never mind other vars, and it is also much slower than it was. And god help you if you have a large code file in your project. The moment you've opened it once, that's it everything starts falling apart and slowing to a crawl. If I copy a file in a .NETCore project then I have to close the solution and re-open it for the compiler to see it. Et cetera, et cetera.

It's obvious that things that shouldn't do a lot of work, do in fact do work. Like if I press Ctrl+C on some selected text. I simply expect it to put the text into the clipboard. But sometimes it will stall, put a dialog on the screen telling me it's doing some formatting and I need to wait! What the hell is it formatting?

Every member of my team is sick of it and it's negatively affecting our productivity, so if Rider is good then bye bye Visual Studio.

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by snomad on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:02PM (#14931698)
Thank you for this. I have been using VS 2017 primarily for last 6 months as I enter the .net world and thought many of these complaints were me / my substandard machine.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by jedwardhawkins on Friday August 04, 2017 @06:51PM (#14933020)
Your experience with VS and your desires for Rider reflect my own. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Visual Studio still a 32 bit application? That would definitely limit the utility of those 128GB.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by louthy on Friday August 04, 2017 @07:18PM (#14933174)
I tend to have a number of solutions open. But mostly I was just trying to convey that my setup isn't to blame (fastest possible ram, large amounts of it, super fast cpu, all off SSDs too).

Obviously a 32bit app could run a number of sub app domains, so it can still make use of more than 2gb. I think ultimately though is it's not the resource that's the issue, it's the buggyness of the system. It just feels unfinished, and it seems there's some lazy decisions made in implementation ... the formatting error on Ctrl-C sounds like it's doing too much work; other things like if I try to download a publicly available nuget package, through the god awful UI, I have the source setup as nuget.com - it then pops up a dialog asking for my credentials to my company nuget server! If I cancel it, guess what, it fails to get the package from the web.

I have a strong suspicion that it's talking to the net too often generally (I have a slow broadband connection, so I see areas that are clearly doing too many round trips).

I feel it seemed to really start going downhill when Roslyn became the compiler (which I assume is running most of the tooling). I don't know if that's anything to do with it, but I assume they had to rewrite a lot of the core components when Roslyn came along.

2015 wasn't great, 2017 is really bad. Waiting several years for them to finish the project properly is taking its toll on my confidence in a product I've used in one form or another since 1994

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by davkean on Sunday August 06, 2017 @10:25PM (#14944877)
louthy, I'm from the VS team. Sorry to hear that you are running into this. Can you Help -> Send Feedback - Report a Problem (don't worry about the contents), and point me to the resulting feedback? I'll dig into your performance data and make sure we've got bugs/fixes for the things you are running into.

Dave twitter.com/davkean

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by ZeroCool2u on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:31PM (#14930811)
Rider Release Candidate is still free atm too!
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by rnentjes on Friday August 04, 2017 @12:56PM (#14930035)
Actually the javascript target has been fully supported since version 1.1.

For example here is a single page app written with kotlin: https://github.com/rnentjes/simple-password-manager

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by bitL on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:18PM (#14930211)
How efficient is the conversion performance-wise and code-length wise? Can I finally get rid of GWT if I want to develop web apps with JVM tooling? Is the debug mapping between JS variables and JVM variables better than with GWT and super dev mode? Is it easy to use Kotlin with ReactVR/Native?
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by rnentjes on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:15PM (#14930671)
With the 1.1.4 version they have added a dead code eliminator which really helps with the resulting javascript length. In the example above the resulting javascript file is 440 KB (zipped 113 KB). Which is not bad if you take into account that the included libraries are more than 2MB (the standard library and static html builders being the biggest ones).

I haven't measured runtime performance, but I haven't noticed anything being slower than plain javascript yet. A clean compile in this example takes ~8 second, incremental compiles takes 3-4 seconds.

The jvm doesn't play a role when targeting javascript so I am not sure what you mean with JVM variables and I don't know much about GWT. But you can debug the resulting javascript from intellij and step through the kotlin sources if you want.

I don't know how easy it is to integrate with react.

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by tootie on Friday August 04, 2017 @06:00PM (#14932707)
Is isomorphic Kotlin a thing yet?
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by adamnemecek on Friday August 04, 2017 @06:39PM (#14932957)
This stack is isomorphic no?
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by pas on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @09:58AM (#14957808)
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by adamnemecek on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:00PM (#14930067)
You might be right, I was certain I read somewhere that some things might still change.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by alexwebb2 on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:21PM (#14931892)
They really do put out some great stuff - ReSharper is tremendously useful for .NET developers, YouTrack is one of the best (if lesser-known) issue trackers out there, and DataGrip is a fantastic database management tool (especially for Postgres, since pgAdmin 3 doesn't support newer versions and pgAdmin 4 is a major step backwards).
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by wongarsu on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:41PM (#14932066)
There is a pgAdmin 3 fork by BigSQL that supports new postgres versions. I can't say how it compares to DataGrip, but compared to pgAdmin 4 it's a godsend.

https://www.openscg.com/bigsql/pgadmin3/

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by alexwebb2 on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:55PM (#14932172)
Oh, neat - I hadn't heard about that.

I don't think I can go back from DataGrip, though. Too many nice things I've gotten used to (query tabs, multi-format result exports, etc).

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by mythrwy on Saturday August 05, 2017 @12:22AM (#14934216)
DataGrip is awesome. Only complaint is the subscription model.

The nice thing about DataGrip as opposed to PG tools listed above is SQLServer support. (Sometimes you don't get to pick the database you'll be working with).

Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by mmargerum on Saturday August 05, 2017 @10:14AM (#14935812)
Love data grip and I also use it for SQL Server. Im happy to pay the sub for it as I am webstorm and soon gogland. Hope they release a clojure IDE soon.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by rufugee on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:13PM (#14931813)
I was coincidentally looking at Ktor yesterday. I quickly ran into pages which are linked from the Getting Started guide (such at http://ktor.io/Features) which don't exist. Doesn't give the best first impression, but I gather it's a very new framework so I'm sure it'll be corrected soon...
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by orangy on Thursday August 10, 2017 @05:30PM (#14984501)
We are sorry for broken links, we just recently migrated from GitHub wiki pages to own site and indeed some links could've migrated incorrectly. Thanks for the heads up, we will fix it :)
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by adamnemecek on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:26PM (#14931935)
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by rufugee on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:41PM (#14932062)
Ah...perhaps it's just a broken link on their end then. See the Features link at the bottom of this page: http://ktor.io/getting-started
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by erichmond on Friday August 04, 2017 @03:44PM (#14931482)
If clojure/script didn't exist, I'd be doing the same thing! Kotlin is a great language!
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by jorgemf on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:42PM (#14930435)
I am not sure if you can use the coroutines in javascript, but if you can you don't need React at all
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by Xantier on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:24PM (#14930749)
You can use coroutines with Kotlin JS. Your sentence doesn't really make sense to me though since coroutines and React have very little to do with each other.
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by joncampbelldev on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:06PM (#14930612)
what is the relationship between a concurrency primitive like coroutines and a view library like react?
Re:JetBrains Web UI components open-sourced by adamnemecek on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:47PM (#14930488)
I meant Quasar for backend. But I think that coroutines are possible in JS with generators.