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Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by tptacek on Thursday August 03, 2017 @06:08PM (#14924392)
Because, really, who among us hasn't built and sold software used to harvest Amazon logins, bank account logins, and credit card numbers from botnets?
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by jacquesm on Thursday August 03, 2017 @06:21PM (#14924480)
Or crawled a webpage outside of the TOS, shared files through torrents, alerted some website that they had a security hole, ran a business legal abroad but illegal in the United States that had US customers, ran afoul of any one of the US laws without knowing about it and in places not normally under US jurisdiction and so on.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by tptacek on Thursday August 03, 2017 @06:29PM (#14924540)
That is a non-sequitur response, as this person has not been arrested for violating terms of service, sharing files through torrents, alerting people to security flaws, selling Canadian pharmaceuticals, or trafficking in undersized lobsters.

They were arrested for building and selling software used to harvest Amazon logins, bank account logins, and credit card numbers from botnets.

Your logic could just as easily be used to dismiss an indictment of any crime, from undersized lobsters to murdering someone with an undersized lobster.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by ChuckMcM on Thursday August 03, 2017 @07:10PM (#14924835)
As I read it, you Thomas were pointing out that the indictment contains a number of overt and recognizably 'bad' acts, and Jacques was pointing out that there are a number of actions that are arguably 'non bad' that could also get you in trouble.

What I took away from this is that Marcus probably shouldn't have come to the US if there really were trails on a computer system tying him to malware. And that Jacques believes it will eventually be a bad idea to come to the US if you have done anything the US disapproves of, even if such things are both acceptable and legal where you did them and when.

Me, I'm just trying to move my deck chair so that I can get a good look at the icebergs floating nearby away from all the screaming and panicing.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by nowo on Thursday August 03, 2017 @07:41PM (#14925056)
While it's a different situation, it's still not a good one. The lack of rights for foreigners, the NSAs reach, the willingness to prosecute citizens of other countries, long detentions and harsh penalties for computer crimes etc. puts people in a situation where the US government can make things very uncomfortable for them. I do think some risks with e.g. mass surveillance have been exaggerated, like being pursued on a basis of keywords. But if the US government actually has evidence against you of things they consider illegal, your legal protection against abuse will have weakened. So while it's unlikely that the FBI has a list of dissidents that they've correlated with collected evidence and are just waiting for people to cross the border, it's still not a situation people should have to, or have to, accept.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by empath75 on Thursday August 03, 2017 @07:51PM (#14925137)
Foreigners who are legally in the us are afforded the exact same due process rights as Americans.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by DaiPlusPlus on Thursday August 03, 2017 @08:02PM (#14925215)
This is not true at all. There is no Due Process when you're under the purview of USCIS/INS, CBP and ICE. This why visa holders in good standing can get turned-away at the border or destination airport and sent back immediately, even if they have done nothing wrong or violated the terms of their visa - just on the suspicion or hunch of the immigration officer - and they can extend their reach even after you pass through immigration. There's a reason they're called "constitution-free zones": https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-b...
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by jacquesm on Thursday August 03, 2017 @08:17PM (#14925294)
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by hueving on Thursday August 03, 2017 @10:17PM (#14925845)
If you haven't made it through CBP, you aren't legally in the US yet.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by irishasaurus on Friday August 04, 2017 @12:08AM (#14926249)
70% of Americans are under the purview of the CBP and their 100mile sphere of influence.

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by tptacek on Friday August 04, 2017 @04:09PM (#14931773)
This is false, and the ACLU should take this page down. In fact, in the 1970s, the Border Patrol tried to rely on this notional "sphere of influence", and was smacked down by the Supreme Court. Searches concomitant with the Border Search Exemption must have some nexus to an actual, recent border crossing.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by linkregister on Friday August 04, 2017 @03:20AM (#14926967)
This is claimed by DHS and not backed by law or legal precedent in the manner you imply.

ICE and CBP do conduct arrests pertaining to border violations within that 100 mile zone, but they aren't shaking down random passers-by for their iCloud passwords. They do have to follow due process.

I don't have citations because I can't prove a negative.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by 19guid on Thursday August 03, 2017 @09:53PM (#14925747)
That's why the parent said "legally in the US", not "at the border".
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by anonymousiam on Friday August 04, 2017 @12:46AM (#14926357)
You meant to say "within 100 miles of any US border" instead of "at the border".
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by nowo on Thursday August 03, 2017 @08:18PM (#14925299)
They could presumably investigate you with much greater power outside of the US where you don't have the same rights. I don't know if they could later use that in court, but that was at least what someone argued regarding Silk Road.

"In any event, even if the FBI had somehow 'hacked' into the SR Server in order to identify its IP address, such an investigative measure would not have run afoul of the Fourth Amendment," Turner wrote. "Because the SR Server was located outside the United States, the Fourth Amendment would not have required a warrant to search the server, whether for its IP address or otherwise."

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/10/us-says-it-can-h...

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by khazhoux on Friday August 04, 2017 @05:56AM (#14927495)
> to murdering someone with an undersized lobster

Too far, man.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by am1988 on Thursday August 03, 2017 @08:33PM (#14925372)
Except those things have happened to other people and thus anyone who has done those things (that aren't necessarily immoral or even illegal in other places) should avoid the US.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by lawnchair_larry on Friday August 04, 2017 @10:48AM (#14929037)
Didn't you guys write an OS X rootkit back in the day?

Although I can see the line between that and this, I find it worringly thin. Throw in a leaked IRC log joking about using it for criminal purposes and an overzealous prosecutor, and you'd probably be done.

Not to mention, it's idiotic to spend resources on prosecuting this guy. His life is effectively over, as he can now only ever use his skills for illegitimate work. Nobody will hire him. Since he was no longer an active accessory to crime and had already spent several years focused on legitimate work, society was far better off allowing him to continue on that path. He probably even more than made up for it by enabling hospitals to treat patients with the wannacry thing.

Instead, we have thrown all that away so some prosecutor can put a notch on his belt and brag about taking down something insignificant because he couldn't get anybody that really mattered. Who, by the way, has a long line of other sellers and is still looting bank accounts.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by tptacek on Friday August 04, 2017 @12:03PM (#14929687)
This logic makes sense if you suck the concept of "intent" out of criminal law. Otherwise, not so much.

But also, please don't corner me into defending the prosecution here. I get that it's easy to do that; just make absurd statements about how law enforcement works, as other people in this thread have done, and I'll probably take the bait.

But really, I have no idea who any of these people are. I don't work in the part of this field that gives a shit about "the Kronos banking malware", I didn't follow "MalwareTechBlog" on Twitter, I'm faintly allergic to the concept of any twitter account with "Malware" in the name, and more than anything else I think that anyone who would write PHP code to help plant HTML trojans across a botnet needs to set the bar a little higher for themselves.

I do not have a strong opinion about whether this person should be prosecuted.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by homakov on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:31AM (#14926767)
Exactly! Even I worked on some ZeuS scripts back when i was freelancing. Not sure if qualifies for weapon. It may kill a JS programmer if they look at it though.

Upd. Oh it was sarcasm. Joking, black hats are pain to deal with on payment side before bitcoin, so I havent got anywhere with that task.

Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by tptacek on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:08PM (#14930126)
Wait, why would you take that work?
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by homakov on Friday August 04, 2017 @01:20PM (#14930230)
Initially it was explained "create some inputs and ask for some numbers from the user" but later I realized what it is for: it's kind of a script that is injected in a banking page to leak credentials. Then I decided to not proceed with this shady task.
Re:Indictment of Marcus Hutchins aka "Malwaretech" by kbart on Friday August 04, 2017 @06:36AM (#14927659)
"Because, really, who among us hasn't built and sold software used to harvest Amazon logins, bank account logins, and credit card numbers from botnets?"

You don't need that. Adding up all the torrents I have downloaded during my life would probably amount to gazillions of dollars (according to DCMA, of course) and land me in jail for several life times. Just a hyperbole of course, but it highlights the fact that I would be scared to enter USA, because who knows, I might have offended some local laws sometime in the past I wasn't even aware of.