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Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by rconti on Thursday July 27, 2017 @12:49AM (#14862788)
I'm not familiar with Sweden's "feminist" government. Can you help foreigners understand? Was it, for example, a matter of existing staff members hiring new ones based on gender rather than on competence? Any reading material on the matter? It sounds like it's a well-known political argument in Sweden, I just don't know the background.
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by rhblake on Thursday July 27, 2017 @01:12AM (#14862860)
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by belorn on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:38AM (#14863362)
It is self defined, as in they call themselves feminist. You will be hard pressed to find any distinguishable feature.

You brought up hiring new staff. This government is the largest employer in the nation and has worse gender segregation than the private industry. One could be forgiven to think then that a "feminist" government would have at minimum create a recommendation in the hiring policy to address that. Nope. Government hired positions still top as the most extreme gender segregated professions in the nation and the trend with this government is more gender segregation in government hired positions, not less.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by jjawssd on Thursday July 27, 2017 @01:00AM (#14862824)
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @02:09AM (#14863012)
TL;DR: Link is to a rambling blog article about a perceived slight (moving money from a 'foreign aid' budget to a 'refugees' one) that will have an unsubstantiated outcome (Sweden will accept only male refugees in the country), apparently based on a well-known falsehood ("most refugees are single adult males" [1]). Blog has articles such as "Sweden should have guns like Texas because ISIS!".

Blog author is not Swedish but lives there. You gotta love how immigrants (who typically don't peep much and commit either the same level of or less crimes than natives [2]) are often accused of not integrating enough, while you can always find white immigrants like our blogger here ready to lecture their host country on how they should run themselves.

I suspect some of the off-topic comments in this thread are because this is about Sweden, a country that has become the target of all sorts of fantasies by much of the Western far right.

[1] http://www.snopes.com/refugee-invaders-meme/

[2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-015-0543-2

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by beagle3 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:03AM (#14863221)
Please note, though, that the snopes link only refutes a specific picture used as evidence, and only gives statistics with respect to Syrian refugees - which are probably the more (perhaps only) deserving of "refugee" status by UN definitions - so it does not, in fact, disprove that "most refugees are single adult males" - and in fact - especially in Sweden - they are.

I quote from [0] which links to primary sources, including the swedish immigration authorities (which I cannot confirm because I can't read swedish):

""" According to Swedish government statistics, as of the end of November, 71 percent of all applicants for asylum to Sweden in 2015 were male. More than 21 percent of all migrants to Sweden were classified as unaccompanied minors, representing more than half of all minor migrants to the country. For accompanied minors, the sex ratio was about 1.16 boys for every one girl. But for unaccompanied minors, the ratio was 11.3 boys for every one girl. In other words, the Swedish case confirms IOM’s statistic that more than 90 percent of unaccompanied minors are male. Indeed, on average, approximately 90 unaccompanied boys entered Sweden every single day in 2015, compared with eight unaccompanied girls. """

[0] http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/europe-refuge...

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:17AM (#14863505)
>> the snopes link only refutes a specific picture

The article provides statistics as recent as 2016. It does more than refute a single picture.

>> Syrian refugees - which are probably the more (perhaps only) deserving of "refugee" status

Just off the top of my head: Eritrea, Lybia, Western Iraq, Burma. And that's not counting locally displaced refugees who don't reach Western shores (Burundi, Nigeria, Yemen).

Regarding your source:

Specifically regarding Sweden, this does not really counter what I said. Your source notes that the demographic that leans (very) heavily male is unaccompanied minors (in fact it seems they account for almost all of the male imbalance in Sweden?). These are not single adult males (I used that term because the linked blog heavily relies on the "dangerous young adult" trope mentioned by Snopes -- by 'single' I mean 'not married'). Your source however does show that there are more adult males registered in Greece and Italy. Quick aside: registered refugees do not get to choose their assigned countries of residence if/when their status as refugee is recognized.

I'd say there is quite a world of difference between groups of "young adult males" and unaccompanied minors (who are in that situation presumably because they have lost their families).

>> and in fact - especially in Sweden - they are

But do you have better sources than this one which says these are boys, not men? The point of my post was that the linked blog made loaded claims without substantiating them, so I only went as far a providing a counter-point. Maybe the current Swedish government does in fact have a policy locally favoring male refugees directly or indirectly (which in absolute is possible since, as noted above, refugees don't get to choose where they end up), but he provided no evidence.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by beagle3 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:59AM (#14863882)
I am on mobile now, can't google efficiently, and the statistics here are lacking either way, but Swedish policy is to accept anyone who claims their are a minor and has no documents to prove otherwise - as a result, young people lose their docs and claim to be less than 18.

This was made widely public when a 23-year old who got asylum as a 17-year old killed a social worker at the asylum about a year ago, and investigation showed that at least 10% of "minor" asylum seekers at that place were above 20. Google may give you more details.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @08:44AM (#14864723)
I did not know that (and that was certainly more informative than the other guy's post). Although I understand the duty to assist minor, the lack of checks is disturbing, especially since it's likely to not go well for anyone (having known someone who did work on refugee cases a while ago, having no legal documents can lengthen the procedure significantly, so they'll be stuck in a center for years, and they do check testimonies as much as possible, so they may end up getting kicked out).

I did Google, and Google tells me Sweden wants to introduce age tests to address this issue (I hope they don't outsource it to IBM).

I disagree with your other post regarding the fact that a refugee being 16 or a young adult doesn't change much: what we are discussing here, beside the racist Predatory Brown Men are coming! thing, is the legitimate concern over the necessary cultural integration of refugees in their host country Vs becoming a problem for society. We know that a husband or dad (or a family unit in general) is much less likely to cause any trouble. That would less be the case with a young single adult, who is fully autonomous and has no dependents. A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by beagle3 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @02:13PM (#14867930)
> A kid, even at 17, is much less autonomous, will have an educator or foster family, will go to school, etc, they are going to be 'enrolled' much more actively into society.

That's nice in theory, but it doesn't actually bear out in practice. As one example, according to [0], even second or third generations fail to integrate (with disastrous results), and AFAIK that's the rule rather than the exception (though there are quite a few exceptions, more in the UK, less in mainland Europe). It's not enough if even 50% integrate successfully when the number of immigrants is so high.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/brussels-molen...

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by raverbashing on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:17AM (#14863706)
"unaccompanied minors" the ones that claim to be 17y.o. when they can get away with it?
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:50AM (#14863840)
I'm sure an overwhelming number of unaccompanied minor refugees are in fact adults claiming to be 17. /s
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by raverbashing on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:41AM (#14864311)
"but a study using dental tests in Norway revealed that 9 out of 10 underage refugee children were actually older than 18."

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&ar...

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @08:45AM (#14864730)
Dude, you are quoting an unsourced study about Norway from an article written in 2010.
Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by raverbashing on Thursday July 27, 2017 @09:14AM (#14864899)
Do you really think the profile is different now?

Do you really think people won't lie to get an advantage

Naivete is strong it seems

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Yetanfou on Thursday July 27, 2017 @04:36PM (#14869217)
Sweden has started doing medical age tests on migrants who claim to be minors. The tests are still voluntary and the results are not binding in any way. The first results are in with the 'expected' results: 76% of those claiming to be minors are in fact over the age of 18. they tested 581 asylum seekers (96% were men, 4% women). 442 of them (430 men, 12 women) were over 18 according to the test results. 5 of them (all women) were possibly over the age of 18. 134 of them (133 men, 1 woman) were possibly under the age of 18. None of them were certainly under the age of 18.

So, yes, those who expected the majority to lie about their age have been proven correct.

https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/de-forsta-medicinska-aldersbedom...

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Yetanfou on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @06:06PM (#14905837)
Just to get back with some new data points:

https://nyheteridag.se/nya-siffror-over-80-procent-av-testad...

Just over 83% is considered to be over 18, ~1% is likely to be over 18, 16% is possibly younger than 18.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by beagle3 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:02AM (#14863900)
Don't be so sure they aren't. They have every incentive in the world to lie. They already violated international law once by seeking refugee status in Sweden instead of first peaceful port.

Either way, even if they are just 16, it does not change the fact that two years later, the vast majority of adult refugees are male.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by rimliu on Thursday July 27, 2017 @03:37AM (#14863353)
Care to show data about Sweden for 2016?

Because your first link talks only about Syrian refugees and only a fraction (<30%) of those coming to Europe were from Sweden. It also talks about refugees in neighbouring countries, which changes the picture a lot.

  > as of 16 March 2016 they had recorded nearly 5 million registered
  > Syrian refugees: 2.1 million of them in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and
  > Lebanon, another 1.9 million in Turkey, and more than 28,000 in
  > North Africa. 
Go see http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... and "well-known falsehood" is not that a falsehood any more.

The second link talks about old stats before the "great influx".

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by Hasknewbie on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:38AM (#14863795)
I don't have any, as said in my reply to beagle3, I was commenting on an article that was making claims about Sweden without showing data. And the data I found, which is more general, does contradict his claim.

Regarding the refugees entering Europe: initially something like 90% of refugees were in Turkey/Lebanon/Jordan, but the camps there started to crumble under the demographic pressure and lack of funds, and people started a westward migration. Most people arriving in Greece are in fact coming out of Turkish refugee camps, as far as I know. So Europe saw its number of refugees double from 10 to 20% in pretty much one year, and it's not really known if the deal with Turkey will stabilize this number.

Your source is better than mine and does show an imbalance in the adult demographics applying for refugee status in Europe, but it is still lacking enough details to support a "single adult males storming the gate" hypothesis: according to the Snopes article most "entering-the-EU-as-single" male refugees are married or part of a family but cross over to Europe alone to apply for the status and then bring their family in later, officially and through non shady/dangerous routes. It makes sense that they would temporarily leave their family in the relative safety of established camps, and the fact that there is no male-leaning imbalance in the overall refugee population supports this. I can't find the source for this but in general "unmarried/alone young adult males" represent a small amount of the overall refugee population [1].

I will also point out again that refugees are in fact "applicants", and once accepted do not choose in what country they end up. If Sweden ends up with a disproportionate number of young men, it will be because of a policy decision, not because they walked in a settled there. Case in point: Canada is taking in plenty of refugees, but not unmarried adult men: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/canada-exclusi...

[1] There is this piece by Samantha Bee: https://youtu.be/na7pFnoLxjw?t=3m6s saying it's about 2%, but it's about the US and they provide no source, and I suspect a refugee expert being interviewed on a liberal show will not be accepted by some.

Re:Swedish Government Scrambles to Contain Damage from Data ... by jjawssd on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:43AM (#14865738)
The blogger is a Muslim immigrant from Bosnia that immigrated when he was very young.