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Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by thereare5lights on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @02:08AM (#14853963)
Oh stop spewing bs about sexual harassment as "hitting on" people. The accusations against the VCs McClure and Pollock involved groping or worse.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by Dude2018 on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @03:17AM (#14854204)
What about using lipstick to emulate sexual arousal? Why did they use make up doing business?
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @04:57AM (#14854569)
Mostly because women often get pulled into meetings with their bosses/HR and told to wear makeup if they don't. Seriously. Even if they don't, they get accused by work colleagues of not looking good enough, and clients comment on it. This isn't something women do to be manipulative - it's something that's enforced as part of a woman's dress code by the company.

Or, in other words, if you think makeup is intended to replicate visual signs of arousal... then this is the culture you work in forcing women to appear sexually aroused in workplace environments. Which is, of course, also something that feminists have talked about for decades.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by belorn on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:47AM (#14854827)
From what I have read, tools to improve ones appearance (makeup, manicures, trendy clothes) is primarily about social status and inter-sex pecking order. Men do the same thing, but instead of makeup it is different signal of having wealth (clocks, gadgets, cars).

I recall reading that if a woman has no other female coworkers, the trend is a decrease use of such signals. With no one to compete with then there is no need to spend energy on it.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by Chris2048 on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:07AM (#14855451)
Then campaign against it. Until then, "corporate expectation" is a convenient excuse, despite the fact that many corporations will fold in the face of any social pressure.

Like how "men" are claimed to be responsible for pressuring women into unrealistic body images, despite the fashion industry being run, and chosen by women.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:27AM (#14855583)
We have been for decades? Like, this was a part of second-wave feminism half a decade ago. It's hardly a new idea.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by Chris2048 on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @10:44AM (#14856574)
There are lots of ideas in the world, I'm talking about actual action.

Various celebs will back a "ban bossy" campaign, but millions of women are forced to feign sexual availability against their wishes, and barely any motivation to protests it?

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @11:10AM (#14856826)
There was, again, actual action. There is still actual action. It didn't, and still doesn't, get anywhere. In fact, it developed quite directly into the idea of the "ugly feminist", a stereotype that exists to this day. Funny that.

Fact of the matter is, if you employ women who don't wear makeup, your clients and customers will think less of your business. You'll lose money and some positivity associated with your brand. Your managers will think less of your female workers - so will their coworkers, no matter the official policy. This isn't the sort of thing that gets changed by a line in a policy document - this is the sort of thing that needs widespread social change.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by Chris2048 on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @12:26PM (#14857649)
"actual action" is not a binary thing. You can gauge motivation by how much action there is, relative to the notional "seriousness" of the subject.

On that basis, the idea "women are socially pressured into wearing make-up" falls short. Women, themselves, are rejecting the idea.

> your clients and customers will think less of your business

This isn't all jobs, though.

A doctor, or back-end dev shouldn't feel any pressure to wear lipstick.

If you want to direct criticism at those roles/instances where there is a problem, and maybe suggest solutions, I'm fine with that, but broad strokes don't do much help.

Incidentally, I see fewer women in my own country wear as much make-up as those in America appears to do. I mentioned "doctor" specifically because I am surprised how much american doctor wear. As a further anecdote, whenever an american version of a European series is remade, the american actors are usually more attractive..

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by Bakary on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @03:35AM (#14854274)
I don't think makeup is a good example, because it's often a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation. Wear makeup and you will be accused of boldness or manipulative tendencies, don't wear it and your appearance will be criticized and commented on. Based on my experience the former is the preferable choice.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by nl on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:06AM (#14854620)
Or maybe they do it because it looks good? Like how some people wear clothes that look good on them.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by marchenko on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @03:23AM (#14854225)
Perhaps these lipstick-wearing women were raised in a social environment where a previously supernormal stimulus (heightened lip pigmentation/smoothed glossy lip surface) is now expected as a normal aspect of professional presentation in many contexts, and they do not wish to be asked "are you feeling well?" on a regular basis.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by prawn on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @03:47AM (#14854317)
"are you feeling well?"

I've witnessed this:

  (concerned) Is x OK?
  Huh?
  Is she upset? She looks like she's been crying.
  (realising) No, she's just not wearing any makeup. You normally see her with makeup on.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by jlebrech on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:04AM (#14854611)
that's where not giving a shit comes into play. you don't accidentally sexism.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:09AM (#14854640)
Sure you do. If you behave to the detriment of one gender but not another, that's sexism. You then say "sorry, didn't mean that", and change your behaviour now that you know.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by jlebrech on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:14AM (#14854665)
sure, assuming someone has been crying is dumb. noticing a change of appearance is something women want you to do when it's a positive thing ie. new haircut. but if it's negative it's probably best to reword what you're saying in a more positive way.

but you can talk to men how you want, they won't care.

so yes you have to behave differently to both genders.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:16AM (#14854675)
I said "to the detriment of", not "differently", for a start.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by jlebrech on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:18AM (#14854681)
so treating both genders equally doesn't always end in equality.
Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by vertex-four on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @05:28AM (#14854733)
Indeed it doesn't!

However, the reasoning for that is interesting - the primary reasons women get more upset when you speak about their appearance negatively when compared to men is that women constantly have it drilled into them that their appearance is one of the most important things about them, from a relatively early age. We have a combination of media and other people who do that - often even other women.

It's something to be solved, but as the situation stands right now, yeah, criticising women on their dress/makeup/haircut only serves to further that - because women have generally already had significantly different experiences than men by the time you meet them.

Re:Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco bus... by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @06:46AM (#14855089)
"Detriment" varies and apparently has a strong gender correlation though.