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Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by koolba on Monday July 24, 2017 @07:07AM (#14837425)
Well technically you did consent by clicking "Enable Kite". I'm not familiar with Kite but the linked image has a line that says, "Click here to learn more.". I'd wager that it eventually links to a page that explains that all your source will be uploaded to their servers.

Now that doesn't make it any less shady though...

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by michaelmior on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:20AM (#14837811)
I don't really want to defend Kite, but when it says "Kite achieves this by analyzing your code in the cloud" I would assume that my code is uploaded to the cloud.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by daxelrod on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:02AM (#14838053)
Which code is "my code" here?

My assumption from that dialog box would be that at most, the code I currently have open in my editor would be uploaded. Not all the source code on my computer.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by iainmerrick on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:08AM (#14839042)
How can autocomplete work without looking at all the other code too?

Edit to add: oh, wait, I misunderstood. It grabs all the code on your computer? That's crazy. I just meant it's not totally unreasonable to grab the whole git repo you're working in, say.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by keganunderwood on Monday July 24, 2017 @10:59PM (#14844772)
Yeah, screw kite.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by sofaofthedamned on Monday July 24, 2017 @03:53PM (#14842047)
Exactly. How do they know what is my code, or somebody elses? Dodgy.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by api on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:22AM (#14839179)
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by mrkrabo on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:32AM (#14837869)
If you're going to upload potentially private code from your user's computer to your servers, you better warn him with big fat red letters before you upload a single byte.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by mercer on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:11AM (#14838112)
If you don't want to defend Kite, why bother defending Kite?
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by michaelmior on Tuesday July 25, 2017 @04:06PM (#14851404)
I'm not defending their actions. I'm just saying that I don't think they're as surprising as people make them out to be given the messaging in the product.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by danmaz74 on Monday July 24, 2017 @07:33AM (#14837539)
Hiding a detail like this into a "read more" is uber-shady. They deserve all the backlash they're getting.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by LaurentVB on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:33AM (#14838282)
Funny how I now read this as Uber-shady.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by Silhouette on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:57AM (#14838016)
This is why some data protection and privacy laws are starting to require active, informed consent before taking some actions, instead of merely specifying "consent".

Even without that, basic contract law in many places requires a degree of mutual understanding for the contract to be valid in the first place. You can't just bury a surprising term with a huge effect deep inside a long legalese document and expect it to actually stand up in court, and if you're doing something dubious and relying on that as your defence then you might be in for some disappointment.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by 3pt14159 on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:00AM (#14837702)
What they did is figuratively a felony (literally a "indictable offense") here in Canada. These guys are going to go to prison. Courts have ruled time and time again that hiding unreasonable or otherwise illegal actions in ToS does not absolve liability or criminality.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by enzanki_ars on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:09AM (#14837739)
Just out of curiosity, what part of this is considered illegal? Not defending Kite here, but it seems that even though they are using some shady tactics to gain users, none of their product/ToS seems illegal.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by efdee on Monday July 24, 2017 @08:29AM (#14837850)
Theft of copyrighted material, if bfirsh's claim of having the tool upload _all of the source code on his computer_ without asking about it.

Maybe even corporate espionage.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by jonathanstrange on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:01AM (#14838042)
> Theft of copyrighted material

Copyright infringement is not theft. These are two completely different issues. When data is copied it is not taken away from the owner like when physical goods are stolen. Secondary damages may or may not occur, but they are not the same as depriving someone of a good. As an analogy, I wouldn't steal a car, but I surely would copy a car if I could do so by simply pressing a button...

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by mort96 on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:19AM (#14839142)
This isn't necessarily only about copyright infringement (though it's definitely that too). If some of the source code on your machine contain sensitive information, like API keys, database passwords, etc.

Legally, the word "theft" isn't only used when one party loses anything; a victim of identity theft doesn't lose their identity, yet we don't call it "identity infringement". I'm not familiar enough with US law to know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the word "theft" is used somewhere for obtaining sensitive information without permission.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by raverbashing on Monday July 24, 2017 @10:50AM (#14838872)
Nuh huh

It's one thing to infringe on the copyright of a public work

Another, very different thing is to copy something that's not public and might be considered IP or a trade secret

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by xg15 on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:57AM (#14838493)
Both are punishable crimes though, so I don't see what difference the point makes
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by Spoom on Monday July 24, 2017 @10:21AM (#14838677)
The primary difference is that copyright infringement is a civil offense, not a criminal one, so nobody would be "going to prison".
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by yellowapple on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:14AM (#14839091)
That still leaves corporate espionage, which (last I checked) is a very severe offense. If that "source code" contained significantly-sensitive data (like medical info or info about legal cases), then there's a giant can of worms right there (and each of those worms has a surname of "Felony").
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by will_brown on Monday July 24, 2017 @10:38AM (#14838770)
Copyright Infringement is an act, and at least here in the US, an act which both criminal and civil laws provides specific penalties/remedies. On the criminal side, obviously, one of the penalties is imprisonment.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by Spoom on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:07AM (#14839027)
Ah, I was unfamiliar with criminal penalties for copyright infringement. Could you go ahead and link me to the relevant US Code text that provides for such penalties?
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by yellowapple on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:20AM (#14839146)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1204

This happens to be the one under which Kite would fall (since they're infringing copyright for "commercial advantage").

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by s73ver on Monday July 24, 2017 @04:00PM (#14842107)
There is such a thing, in the US at least, as criminal copyright infringement.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by sloppycee on Monday July 24, 2017 @10:37AM (#14838766)
No, but if that copyright material contained trade secrets then it is criminal.
Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by matt4077 on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:03AM (#14838987)
And if it contained gold, it's actual theft.

But that's about as unlikely as the code containing trade secrets.

Plus:

- For copyright infringement, they'd need to actually redistribute the code. Using it for machine learning and distributing short snippets wouldn't be copyright infringement.

- For that trade secret stuff you'd need to prove intent.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by icebraining on Monday July 24, 2017 @11:57AM (#14839530)
For copyright infringement, they'd need to actually redistribute the code.

IANAL, but I don't think so. In MAI v. Peak[1], the court determined that even loading a program from disk to RAM was a copy, and therefore infringing without a license. Congress has since then added a specific exception for "Machine maintenance and repair", but that's it. Copying from a remote machine and storing it in their disks should certainly qualify.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAI_Systems_Corp._v._Peak_Comp....

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by sloppycee on Monday July 24, 2017 @03:07PM (#14841610)
> But that's about as unlikely as the code containing trade secrets.

Unpublished code, is itself a trade secret. Even just the processes, procedures, organisation, tooling, library use, etc in the code provides a competitive advantage. i.e. The 'metadata' is also a trade secret.

The only intent you'd need to prove is that the accused is using the trade secret to the 'economic benefit of anyone other than the owner'.

It seems obvious that Kite is training a proprietary ML algorithm, with trade secrets, for their own economic benefit.

Re:How a VC-funded company is undermining the open-source co... by freshhawk on Monday July 24, 2017 @04:00PM (#14842109)
Makes me imagine some angry and equally shady person might contribute to some open source projects that Kite uses internally. With a ToS addition giving them access to all available data on the company network if you are Kite.

Obviously this would a be a terrible thing to do and no one should.