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Re:If borders were open by Kazamai on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:33PM (#14830234)
This is only a good idea if we ignore that a billion people would migrate in a few months in an attempt to escape poverty. The results would be catastrophic.
Re:If borders were open by ben_w on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:46PM (#14830287)
That isn't a major risk — why don't all the people living in relative poverty in your nation move to the richest district of your richest city?
Re:If borders were open by skrowl on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:49PM (#14830299)
Because they couldn't afford it. Straight-to-welfare refugees don't have to worry about generating income.
Re:If borders were open by ben_w on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:54PM (#14830312)
Refugees and migrants are different categories. Refugees are, in some cases, forbidden from seeking work, even if they want to.
Re:If borders were open by grayarea on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:42PM (#14830275)
Do you really think that if a billion people wanted to migrate in a few months we would have anyway of stopping them? They would have to be motivated by something pretty terrible and yet allow them mobility at the same time. Like say a war. Which we see all the time.
Re:If borders were open by pmarreck on Saturday July 22, 2017 @09:05PM (#14830354)
You proved you didn't read the article. Nice work.
Re:If borders were open by gumby on Saturday July 22, 2017 @09:00PM (#14830335)
> if we ignore that a billion people would migrate in a few months in an attempt to escape poverty.

The article specifically discusses this.

Re:If borders were open by fche on Saturday July 22, 2017 @09:09PM (#14830375)
Is this the part you're referring to:

"Unskilled migrants care for babies or the elderly, thus freeing the native-born to do more lucrative work."

Sorry, no, I don't want migrants deeply afflicted with weird cultures left alone with my baby nor my mother.

Re:If borders were open by gumby on Sunday July 23, 2017 @01:58AM (#14831075)
> Is this the part you're referring to:

> "Unskilled migrants care for babies or the elderly, thus freeing the native-born to do more lucrative work."

No, it's this:

> Gallup, a pollster, estimated in 2013 that 630m people—about 13% of the world’s population—would migrate permanently if they could, and even more would move temporarily. Some 138m would settle in the United States, 42m in Britain and 29m in Saudi Arabia.

> Gallup’s numbers could be an overestimate. People do not always do what they say they will. Leaving one’s homeland requires courage and resilience.

So less than a billion, net, world wide.

> Sorry, no, I don't want migrants deeply afflicted with weird cultures left alone with my baby nor my mother.

Well you are free to continue to pay the higher price for the person of the culture you prefer. Others who don't care can pay a lower price. Isn't that capitalism?

Re:If borders were open by nostromo123 on Tuesday July 25, 2017 @03:22AM (#14845793)
> Well you are free to continue to pay the higher price for the person of the culture you prefer. Others who don't care can pay a lower price. Isn't that capitalism?

This is not how it works in Germany: migration proponents want tax paying citizens to sustain their utopic dream. Once they have to pay out of their own pocket, the position changes drastically.

Re:If borders were open by fche on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:57AM (#14832054)
> So less than a billion, net, world wide.

So your retort to "if we ignore that a billion people would migrate in a few months in an attempt to escape poverty" is that it will be "less than a billion", then the article didn't exactly reassure. It's a quibble between basic numbers (population in the third world) vs hypothetical numbers (Gallup's rolodex), not a substantial discussion or disagreement.

Re:If borders were open by conanbatt on Saturday July 22, 2017 @09:14PM (#14830394)
Nobody is forcing you to. The application of migration restrictions is forcing other people to not move. In terms of individual liberties you lose nothing in this case.
Re:If borders were open by fche on Saturday July 22, 2017 @09:31PM (#14830444)
> you lose nothing

Right, and if those unskilled immigrants don't all find jobs as nannies and nurses (since I won't be the only one keeping them from the most vulnerable), then I'll be taxed to pay for them anyway. That's not "nothing".

If the cultures are very different, and they come in huge numbers that refuse to assimilate, then I suffer dilution of mine. That's not "nothing" either.

Re:If borders were open by conanbatt on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:50AM (#14830954)
> then I'll be taxed to pay for them anyway. That's not "nothing".

Taxed to pay them what. If you have a beef with welfare programs in the us, you should take it with the welfare programs. Foreigners never had a voice or a vote in terms of what qualified for such kinds of programs.

> If the cultures are very different, and they come in huge numbers that refuse to assimilate, then I suffer dilution of mine. That's not "nothing" either.

This argument could be made verbatim against many things that today are considered bigotry or illegal.

Re:If borders were open by fche on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:58AM (#14832060)
> Foreigners never had a voice or a vote

Indeed - and they should not be a beneficiary either. Do you for a moment believe that "New Deal" / "Great Society" laws would ever have passed, if under the understanding that the whole population of the Earth would be entitled to receive it?

> This argument could be made verbatim ... that today are considered bigotry

That does not make the argument erroneous, only un-PC.

Re:If borders were open by conanbatt on Sunday July 23, 2017 @08:56PM (#14835233)
> That does not make the argument erroneous, only un-PC.

It makes it heinous, because heinous things are said and done with that argument. "We shouldn't hire women, because they will affect the culture we have", etc.

Re:If borders were open by fche on Monday July 24, 2017 @09:40PM (#14844393)
Are you of the impression that women are of a very different culture, come in huge numbers that refuse to assimilate? Where is this?
Re:If borders were open by sethrin on Sunday July 23, 2017 @09:43AM (#14832215)
What exactly is cultural dilution? It sounds like a dog whistle for base tribalism.
Re:If borders were open by ForHackernews on Saturday July 22, 2017 @08:41PM (#14830269)
FTA:

> If the worry is that future migrants might not pay their way, why not charge them more for visas, or make them pay extra taxes, or restrict their access to welfare benefits? Such levies could also be used to regulate the flow of migrants, thus avoiding big, sudden surges

Re:If borders were open by mnm2 on Sunday July 23, 2017 @03:42AM (#14831299)
Yeah, make the poor pay more

That's the solution!

They depend on government handouts or other donations and making them pay more will solve the problem now

Re:If borders were open by fche on Sunday July 23, 2017 @09:00AM (#14832065)
FTA:

> open borders

also FTA:

> why not charge them more for visas

Someone forgot what "open borders" means.

Re:If borders were open by ForHackernews on Sunday July 23, 2017 @09:35AM (#14832191)
Does anyone on HN actually read the article anymore? They specifically address this:

> To clarify, “open borders” means that people are free to move to find work. It does not mean “no borders” or “the abolition of the nation-state”. On the contrary, the reason why migration is so attractive is that some countries are well-run and others, abysmally so.

You're using a different (and unspecified) definition of "open borders" than the authors of the article.

Re:If borders were open by fche on Sunday July 23, 2017 @10:28AM (#14832394)
If his "open borders"' "free to move" does not include "free to move across borders", then it's a troll piece. If it's "free to move, if immigration law permits", then it's a tautological piece.
Re:If borders were open by ForHackernews on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:33PM (#14833061)
Maybe you should try reading the article to see what the article is about.
Re:If borders were open by fche on Sunday July 23, 2017 @12:57PM (#14833179)
Rereading did not help make the thesis any better founded, or its abuse of the term "open borders" any more acceptable.