That's not the case (plus I'm not the parent who you were responding to).
The parent wrote: "Having to work for someone else will lead to less freedom of choice than working for yourself."
And you responded: "That's just silly. If you really wanted to get away from all human dependence, the path to that is clear, go live out in the woods off the grid."
That's the dictionary definition of the slippery slope fallacy.
The parent didn't say anything about "really [wanting] to get away from all human dependence", so why bring this up? He just said that working for yourself is more free than working for someone else.
And you continued that "Whatever it is you want, holding down a stable, reliable job is a great way to move closer to it" freelancing or creating one's own business is not an option, and everybody is better of to achieve their goals by "holding down a stable, reliable job".
Tens of millions of people started straight into either freelancing or getting their own business while young or even straight out of college. An office or salaried job has never been a requirement, and has become even less so nowadays.
>I said nothing of the sort! I know lots of successful entrepreneurs. That's a great path to take if you want to do it. But you get there by learning about entrepreneurship and marketing, not by wishing and wishing you can quit your job.
Who said about "wishing you can quit your job"? TFA and other people in these comments spoke about actually quitting your job. Or not starting with one in the first place, but doing your own thing from the start. Heck, the article is about the guy completing 10 years doing his thing, not about them "wishing they can quit their job".
So yeah, I'll concede the logical points you raised.
But you have no idea how many really and truly irrational people I've run into in my day. Life wasn't kind to them, and I'm expected to fix it, and if I don't, I'm the irrational / disloyal one. I am very very attuned to the irrational mindset.
But HN has its crazy idealism, so the second I call one person irrational, everybody here jumps on me like I'm a crazy job Nazi. I attacked your idealism, I must pay. I get this crap with my roommate, who pissed away 3 jobs since I've known him and have to give a break on the rent because he's satisfying other obligations that he took on at least partly due to idealism.
So let me state, for the record, that not wanting to have a 9-5 job is an eminently rational thing to want. Wanting it against reality, however, or without a realistic plan to accomplish it, or settling on stupid ways of getting there, like just quitting without a game plan, is a recipe for pain, not prosperity. You're not dealing from a rational frame, so your outcomes will not be what you want them to be.
My strong reaction comes from many many years of dealing with people who beg for your help, but just can't be helped. You can't talk sense into them, you can't give them anything that would meaningfully help them.
I felt sure that I’d never work for someone else again. My will to “work” was gone. I cashed out a big chunk of my retirement fund to buy myself some time. After all, I had spent years eating 80-cent Banquet® meals for lunch, saving for this moment.
From your comment above, one of many here:
So let me state, for the record, that not wanting to have a 9-5 job is an eminently rational thing to want. Wanting it against reality, however, or without a realistic plan to accomplish it, or settling on stupid ways of getting there, like just quitting without a game plan, is a recipe for pain, not prosperity. You're not dealing from a rational frame, so your outcomes will not be what you want them to be.
The article also indicates he has savings, something lots of Americans don't have, regardless of how they make their money. He has more than paid back the money he cashed out of his retirement.
I don't know what on earth you are arguing against here, but it seems unrelated to the actual article under discussion. I get that people get defensive when "everyone" seems to argue against them. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But sometimes, walking away from the stupid argument with internet strangers and not continuing to dig your grave deeper is the better choice. Sometimes, one is just running a fever or pissed at their boss or whatever and this stupid argument seems wildly more important than it really is. Down that path lies madness.
best.
Well, we can agree to that, but that's not the exclusive or general case.
I think you color it more by your experience with your roommate, than by what people generally do.
In general, judging from hundreds of millions of McJobs and corporate jobs, most people don't leave their jobs willy nilly.
I'd go as far as to say that wanting to quit your job and start a freelancing or entrepreneurial or small business gig, is not irrational in itself, EVEN if the person fails. If it was guaranteed success, we wouldn't be talking about entrepreneurial risk.
As long as its a calculated risk -- and not crazy optimism, I don't find it irrational.
Now, crazy optimism, "I will succeed no matter what", that is irrational.
You are the one who is saying I gave a either-or.
> Listening to you one would think that wanting to be an entrepreneur or a freelancer is something exotic, for really crazy daredevils.
I said nothing of the sort! I know lots of successful entrepreneurs. That's a great path to take if you want to do it. But you get there by learning about entrepreneurship and marketing, not by wishing and wishing you can quit your job.
> Maybe the military is not the best place to learn everything there is about employment and the motivations of people, or about what's "rational"?
Good thing I was only there for two years.