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Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @05:23PM (#14792376)
> For a soldier, it's their duty

They accept that duty though, so it's the same thing - instead of "is it ok for a soldier to go to war" it's "is it ok to become a soldier".

> his tolerance for risk wrt cave diving is different than what you and I perceive

What does this mean?

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by harpiaharpyja on Monday July 17, 2017 @05:38PM (#14792483)
Not GP but I believe he is saying that unless we've been in an underwater cave the diver's perspective may be difficult for us to really appreciate.

To us, continuing to dive seems like an unacceptable risk. To the diver, it seemingly is not.

Along the same vein I believe GP then goes on to say that he does not feel that the diver's perspective is less valid just because he (the GP) doesn't understand it.

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @05:53PM (#14792582)
But what's the difference?

Either it's risky, or it isn't? If the diver has good reason to think that it isn't, fair enough. But is that the case?

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by gpawl on Monday July 17, 2017 @08:34PM (#14793463)
risk is easy to calculate. reward is not.
Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Retra on Monday July 17, 2017 @07:17PM (#14793099)
No, they don't merely accept that duty. They receive a paycheck, societal honors, and if they die in the line of duty, their family gets taken care of. They also tend to go into battle under the pretense of carrying out a function of necessity.
Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by balls187 on Monday July 17, 2017 @05:29PM (#14792423)
> What does this mean?

As someone who's never done cave diving, the perception of risk is going to be higher than the actual risk. 1 time in 24 years is pretty low.

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @05:41PM (#14792509)
Maybe, unless he got sloppier as time went on.

There are a few flags pointed out in these threads - like not telling anyone that he dived..

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by PhasmaFelis on Monday July 17, 2017 @06:56PM (#14792963)
On the other hand, in that case he's likely to be "scared straight" now and much more careful, at least for a good while.
Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @07:01PM (#14793005)
Hopefully..
Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by pdonis on Monday July 17, 2017 @06:40PM (#14792854)
> They accept that duty though, so it's the same thing - instead of "is it ok for a soldier to go to war" it's "is it ok to become a soldier".

But if it's not ok to become a soldier if you have kids, that severely limits who can be a soldier. (For example, many soldiers get married and start families during their careers as soldiers. Should they instantly get discharged if that happens? Taken off all possibly dangerous duties?) That doesn't seem like a good idea for society as a whole, since it makes being a soldier a much less attractive career, and any society needs soldiers to defend it.

The argument with cave diving is at least somewhat stronger, since I don't see any pressing need for society as a whole to have a particular number of cave divers, or for cave diving to be an attractive career.

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @06:57PM (#14792969)
> that severely limits who can be a soldier

But that's an economic problem, isn't it? Maybe if children stopped working, we couldn't make enough matches? But unless we recognise the morally undesirable, why would we care to change anything?

You can recognise something as morally undesirable, yet for some other reason unavoidable. There are many things that fall into that category.

It's also a slippery slope - if something is needed does that justify all means in getting it? And to what extent does America really need (a certain amount) of soldiers? It's one thing to defend its borders, but is every military action of necessity - as opposed to national will?

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by pdonis on Monday July 17, 2017 @07:31PM (#14793189)
> that's an economic problem, isn't it?

Only if you think the need of any society to be able to defend itself is an economic problem.

> to what extent does America really need (a certain amount) of soldiers?

That depends on what threats we expect to have to deal with.

Also, if you argue that people with children should not be soldiers, you are taking out of the decision loop people who are likely to have a more restrained view of when violence should be used.

Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by gpawl on Monday July 17, 2017 @08:34PM (#14793459)
the people who die in war aren't the people who decide to get into a war.
Re:Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen by Chris2048 on Monday July 17, 2017 @09:07PM (#14793645)
They are the people who decide to pledge themselves knowing war is very much a possibility.

Plus, soldiers will see action/danger even when the country is not explicitly at war.