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Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by jjcc on Thursday July 13, 2017 @10:03AM (#14761290)
Your observation is correct. As an ethnic Chinese I'm sorry and apologize for that. Many Chinese and government know that's true. As result, all Chinese mobile phone users will receive a text message from Chinese embassies when they are landed to foreign countries even inside airplane (at least US and Canada ) reminding them(mobile phone carrier) to respect local custom and culture, especially don't speak aloud in public areas.

There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism. But there are more profound reasons. Unfortunately, researches and studies of personality statistics of vary large group of people(for example, behavior of an ethnic group) are very difficult and most importantly: they are politically incorrect, considered harmful and forbidden, as well as the conclusions will not be accepted by public. So most people on the earth don't know the real reasons behind that but only have fake explanations that modern human mind can accept.

BTW off the topic. with same understanding, I predicted early in 2003 that Bush's goal of Iraq war would fail FOR SURE by observation of similarity of statistical (i.e. population) mindsets between middle east people and Chinese people.

The good news is things are changing slowly towards the good direction. The habit and behavior of Chinese people, especially young generation and educated people are more and more closer to that of Japanese, Hongkonger, Taiwan people. But it will take long long time, maybe generations.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by Taylor_OD on Thursday July 13, 2017 @11:53AM (#14762329)
"There are many reasons for that. A obvious one is quick economic growth makes many less educated normal people can afford previously luxury tourism."

I always assumed it came down to exactly this. Give people money who have never had money before and there are going to be some social growing pains but eventually everything will normalize.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by armenarmen on Thursday July 13, 2017 @01:06PM (#14763009)
Yep. This is where the hilariously negative though accurate stereotypes of my people (Armenians) come from. Take people fresh out of 80 years of communism, bring them to America and they go a little to hard on the old consumer culture and bathing in cologne
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:13PM (#14762527)
Then how does one explain the USA and Japan (just as two examples out of many) - both wealthy countries with very distinct cultures?
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by JBReefer on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:21PM (#14762598)
Japanese tourists are amazing. I once saw a 20-something couple silently watch a beautiful peacock stroll through the grounds of St. John the Divine, for an HOUR. I was walking around and enjoying the space, but those two seemed to have found some sort of peace with the place that locals will never have. The nodded to me when they left and cleaned up their picnic perfectly. You don't see many Japanese tourists anymore and (completely uniquely) that's a shame.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by amirmc on Thursday July 13, 2017 @10:20AM (#14761441)
> Unfortunately, researches and studies of personality statistics of vary large group of people(for example, behavior of an ethnic group) are very difficult and most importantly: they are politically incorrect, considered harmful and forbidden, as well as the conclusions will not be accepted by public.

Do you mean politically incorrect in China? Otherwise, I'd just call this kind of study Anthropology (of some form).

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @11:01AM (#14761828)
In my experience, most Westerners (well, moreso under the age of 40) seem to believe there is literally no such thing as culture, almost as if it is a completely imaginary concept.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by CrystalLangUser on Friday July 14, 2017 @02:09AM (#14767887)
False. Young Americans not only acknowledge different cultures, they even do things like use them in debates about ways to improve our healthcare, for example. Our education system even discusses Native Americans as pertaining to US history, which includes differing customs...

Saying that [a group of] people think all people, globally, are the same is really ridiculous. Maybe online it might seem that way but people in real life don’t.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Friday July 14, 2017 @11:18AM (#14770438)
> Saying that [a group of] people think all people, globally, are the same is really ridiculous.

I'm always curious whether these mistakes are intentional or not. I said "most". I was being partially hyperbolic (I honestly don't know if it's half or not, it depends on what conversation you observe really).

> they even do things like use them in debates about ways to improve our healthcare, for example

That's another commonality you will in public discussions: depending on the topic of conversation, cultures/genders are sometimes considered unique and sometimes not, by the same person. Their opinion changes depending on the topic of discussion. You see it online, you see it in the news, you see it in debates (online and real world).

If a politically correct person just came back from an overseas holiday, they will speak of the "richness" of the culture there, how they do some things in a different and often better way. (I agree with this perspective.)

The very same person, on the topic of immigration, will insist in complete seriousness, that there is no noteworthy cultural difference. Oh but also, we absolutely must have more immigration, because it increases diversity (despite the people not actually being different), which is good.

And I suppose it's necessary for me to explicitly point out: not all people do this, only some people.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mmmpop on Thursday July 13, 2017 @11:15AM (#14761971)
What's your experience that gives you such an impression?
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by culture1234 on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:10PM (#14762500)
Because, if we acknowledge that more than one culture exists, then we will attempt to compare them. However, as everyone knows, all peoples are equal in all ways - any other conclusion is literally fascist and deserving of public shaming. Thus there is no culture because there are no differences.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mmmpop on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:21PM (#14762602)
Wait, so as an American I read reports of schools in France and how they feed the children better, more nutritious food all while teaching them some table manners. My appreciation of this "better" culture of food and dining makes me a fascist? You're making some really sweeping and baseless assertions.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by culture1234 on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:28PM (#14762651)
Halt, fascist! You require reeducation.

Of course my comment is making sweeping and baseless assumptions. It is my attempt to sarcastically express the zeitgeist.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mmmpop on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:31PM (#14762690)
Consider me fooled! Poe's Law strikes again...
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @01:06PM (#14763005)
Not quite, there's some complexity involved here that was left out. For starters, it is only Westerners, and predominantly younger people, who believe such obviously silly things. Secondly, it is possible for Western cultures to be objectively worse, but(!) this in no means implies that there are differences in cultures. If that seems illogical to you, it means you just need more reeducation. It can often be helpful to feel about it, rather than think about it, thinking can fill your head with all sorts of crazy ideas.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mmmpop on Thursday July 13, 2017 @01:11PM (#14763050)
Ah yes reeducation, I forgot I'm just some idiotic, unenlightened American.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by girvo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @08:50PM (#14766620)
There's quite a lot of sarcasm in the above replies, in case you (or others!) missed it; GP and others are laughing at those that claim these sorts of thoughts are fascist or dangerous, not actually saying you fall afoul of it
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mmmpop on Friday July 14, 2017 @12:58PM (#14771269)
I seriously cannot tell anymore.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @12:15PM (#14762552)
Interaction (or observances of interactions) with people, discussion of matters that occur in the news, etc. The notion that there are statistically significant norms of behavior within cultures is considered outright false, full stop. The reasoning? That is racist and therefore it is false. Whenever race/gender/religion is involved in any discussion, the correct answer is "everyone is the same", you don't even have to look at the science, that is a waste of time because no other answer is possible.
Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by smogcutter on Thursday July 13, 2017 @01:07PM (#14763020)
Not arguing with your experience, but offering something else to consider: these days when people bring up "culture" it sounds like what they really want to talk about is race. The term has a long history of being used to put a wig on various forms of racism: "Race XYZ obviously isn't inherently lazy, but it's part of their culture..."

Even assuming you don't mean culture as a proxy for race or religion (which are obviously related but not the same as culture), times being what they are when you hear "culture" from a stranger you don't usually think "oh interesting, an anthropologist!". Instead it's usually time to buckle up for a broad generalization about a very large group of people the speaker is no more familiar with than anyone else.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @01:57PM (#14763548)
> The term has a long history of being used to put a wig on various forms of racism: "Race XYZ obviously isn't inherently lazy, but it's part of their culture..."

Because that's objective reality. Cultures do have statistically common behaviors/traditions/norms, some "good", some "bad" - that is literally a fundamental part of the very definition of culture. Acknowledging this obvious fact in a reasonable conversation is no more wrong than saying it's still not ok to drink and drive despite the fact that most impaired drivers do not cause any harm.

Mischaracterizing the simple acknowledgement of patterns of behavior as a claim that all members of a group always act that way, and no improvement is possible because the culture is fundamentally flawed, is incredibly disingenuous. Anyone who makes this claim should be ashamed of themselves, as it is attitudes like this that contribute to perpetuating disunity between cultures who will always be distinct. Cultural uniqueness is usually a good thing (and should be preserved), but not always.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by prawn on Thursday July 13, 2017 @09:52PM (#14766830)
I first visited China over 25 years ago and the domestic Chinese tourist groups then were a bit painful. As that middle class has grown and they've been able to travel internationally, that fun has spread. Yes, they're pretty obnoxious, but it's more ignorance than intentional.

Certainly not so painful that I'd avoid visiting China though.

Younger Chinese travelling as couples or small groups are much more polite. As you said, within a generation or two, I think the reputation as travellers will improve.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by anonicasjuly on Friday July 14, 2017 @01:26AM (#14767715)
Why do you feel the need to apologize?

This guy is basically saying because of the actions of some Chinese tourists, he's going to stereotype an entire culture of people and you're the one apologizing?

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by mistermann on Thursday July 13, 2017 @10:59AM (#14761805)
> but only have fake explanations that modern human mind can accept

Thank you for this, it's nice to see some people still have the ability to think beyond propaganda.

Re:Visiting Chinese Megacities by popopobobobo on Thursday July 13, 2017 @11:40AM (#14762199)
Why does Chinese sounds so New Yorker to me?