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A comment on Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons. Parent comment

Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 10, 2017 @12:42PM (#14737519)
You've got it backwards. Our brains are what is holding society back.

We need a socio-cultural breaktrough of the same magnitude as the technological breakthrough

That's what transhumanism is. It's a restructuring of the human system around symbiosis with AI.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by aivijay on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:16PM (#14738350)
"It's a restructuring of the human system around symbiosis with AI".

This sounds more like to basically have a socio-cultural breakthrough, you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution. Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface) with computers around an AI, and other human built accessories (atleast for now) to enhance their mental abilities to project them as more powerful humans. One question is, how much do we actually know the power of our brain and abilities, if its properly used rather than enhancing with computers etc., Yes, there are great use-cases for HCI. But giving control to an AI to make your decisions or control humans in the name of technological break through is absurd.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:21PM (#14738396)
you want a technological entity (some AI or whatever it turns out to be in the future) to control and direct human socio-cultural thoughts and execution.

Yes exactly!

Transhumanism seems to be more oriented towards equipping humans to be interfaced(through some HCI - human computer interface) with computers around an AI, and other human built accessories (atleast for now) to enhance their mental abilities to project them as more powerful humans.

It's currently sold that way, yes, but I don't see it that way. I envision it more like what I have been told/read about is the "Borg" from Star Trek (admittedly I've never seen it).

But giving control to an AI to make your decisions or control humans in the name of technological break through is absurd.

As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by aivijay on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:35PM (#14738500)
"As absurd now as walking around on the moon was in the 1st Century."

Yes true(wonder why we don't shuttle down to the moon since we landed half a century ago and still never went back???), it is going to be absurd till we have an AI which is as capable(or even half as capable) as much as a human and we can debug that AI or maybe that AI debug's itself reflexively. Till then, I would say its absurd anytime to think that an AI could take control of a human and guide the human in its actions. Till then, I will keep my brain intact and keep away from any AI implants or any kind of implant altogether).

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:41PM (#14738547)
I don't think we need superhuman AGI to start having AI guide human actions. We already let AI guide us in daily life all the time, navigation, purchasing recommendations etc...

It's not a question of IF we will have AI direct our behavior, it's just a question of scale.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by aivijay on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:59PM (#14738682)
I understand, we use AI in one form or another in our daily lives. But for very specific and specialized narrow cases. As you mentioned, its that scale that matters which our brain does seamlessly and us as the generation with AI builders around, we are no where anything to perform in scale with an AI except very specialized tasks. It naturally will improve over time, but AI attaining AGI status and maybe taking control over socio-economic or socio-cultural changes would be a long shot unless we humans don't destroy ourselves by destroying life on earth.
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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by captainmuon on Monday July 10, 2017 @01:25PM (#14737936)
We are somewhat offtopic, but: That sounds a bit like the church in the middle ages saying: "your sins are what is holding society back, that is why you can't have nice things". Or like many utopians, who wanted to create a "better man". Or their detractors, who said utopia doesn't work because people are flawed.

I don't want to change people, I want to change society.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 10, 2017 @02:09PM (#14738291)
I don't want to change people, I want to change society.

Somehow you think those are different things and I'm not sure why. Society only changes when enough people individually change. You can force change through government or coercion, but it's temporary and unsustainable.

utopia doesn't work because people are flawed.

Right, I'd agree with that.

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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by captainmuon on Monday July 10, 2017 @04:46PM (#14739495)
What I mean is, I don't want Utopia for some kind of Adornoian "liberated human" or socialist übermensch, I want an Utopia in which I myself can live. Despite my flawed socialisation and biology. I think we can refactor society, instead of reforming or revolutionizing it. Keep the same people, don't coerce them into anything. Don't wait for future technological improvements, but reap the benefits of centuries of previous improvements. We have been technically able to satisfy the needs of everybody from a purely material point of view for decades now. Now we need to fix the allocation of these goods, and the crisis of political representation (or the lack thereof for many people).
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Re:Darpa Wants Brain Implants That Record from 1M Neurons by AndrewKemendo on Monday July 10, 2017 @06:16PM (#14740165)
I personally think that is impossible. It would be like training a rat to sing opera. We don't fundamentally have the hardware that would allow it.

We have been technically able to satisfy the needs of everybody from a purely material point of view for decades now.

"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need but not every man's greed" - Gandhi

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