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Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by IncRnd on Thursday July 06, 2017 @05:42PM (#14714194)
"In terms of security/isolation, processes, users, containers and virtualization are all essentially the same thing."

This is not true. They each are defined by different security boundaries, have vastly differing properties of isolation and communication, contain different data, and are contained by different components.

From a security perspective they are not the same, though from a functional perspective they each solve similar problems.

Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by wfunction on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:33PM (#14714508)
I feel like you're speaking past each other. I think you're describing what they happen to be empirically, whereas the parent is describing what they are fundamentally (isolation mechanisms). I'm pretty sure the parent realizes you can't "user" for "container" in the same sentence, and that each one has different use cases and implications... but what is being claimed is a little more abstract than that.
Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by IncRnd on Thursday July 06, 2017 @08:39PM (#14715122)
That may be, though I do not think that is the case as the parent made a very narrow qualified statement.

The parent made a specific statement about the security properties of various isolation mechanisms, equating them all from a security perspective.

Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by btrask on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:32PM (#14714505)
Can you give a specific example of something that e.g. processes absolutely must support which users absolutely cannot?

Consider that in Linux, processes and threads are implemented via the same abstraction (tasks). This abstraction actually leaks in some unfortunate cases, but it's generally considered "good enough."

Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by IncRnd on Thursday July 06, 2017 @08:37PM (#14715111)
The abstraction may be good enough functionally. My comment was a security not functional statement.

In the case you mention, your choice of abstraction may affect your threat model, depending on if there is shared state and what data may require isolation.

Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by btrask on Thursday July 06, 2017 @09:10PM (#14715253)
I'm assuming that the underlying isolation mechanism is formally proven (or at least as good as possible). With a single set of reasonable features, it should be able to provide isolation between processes, users, containers and VMs. What am I missing?
Re:Privileged Ports Are Expensive (2016) by IncRnd on Friday July 07, 2017 @12:45AM (#14716130)
For general purpose operating systems formal verification of security mechanisms should not always be assumed.

I was not talking about ideal security but that certain pre-existing mechanisms do not have equivalent security postures, as the parent had mentioned. The point isn't that with enough work isolation can be achieved but that that work has not in fact been done and the various mechanisms are distinct and their security values should not be conflated.