News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by threeseed on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:43PM (#14685137)
Not sure what you mean about Apple.

Their second generation, butterfly keyboards are amazing once you get used to it and aren't some indication that they are abandoning content creators.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by nickpeterson on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:48PM (#14685158)
How about their dedicated emoji bar instead of control keys?
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by matt4077 on Sunday July 02, 2017 @11:18PM (#14685636)
It's awesome. It finally makes keyboard shortcuts discoverable.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by threeseed on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:51PM (#14685167)
1. It's not a dedicated emoji bar.

2. You can set it to permanently show control keys.

3. It's optional. You can buy the model without it.

4. Some of us actually like it. I use IntelliJ every day and it's great to be able to have dedicated refactor/debug keys instead of having to remember arcane key commands.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by JoshTriplett on Sunday July 02, 2017 @09:11PM (#14685258)
> 2. You can set it to permanently show control keys.

You can set it to permanently show images of control keys, on a flat surface. If I wanted a tablet I'd buy a tablet; keys have boundaries between them, push down and spring up, and otherwise respond to fingers in ways that a tablet doesn't.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by snewk on Sunday July 02, 2017 @11:47PM (#14685704)
are you so upset by point 2 that you forgot point 3?

some people seem to think that apple is in the business of personally catering to their every whim.

i totally get why you wouldn’t like the touch bar, but you don’t have to buy that model. in fact, you don’t have to buy a macbook at all.

it’s also pretty astonishing to me how many people vehemently hate this thing they’ve never even tried to use.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by tfcata on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:22AM (#14686020)
There is no such an option for the 15-inch model. In fact, the 13-inch model that doesn't come with this bar is the lower-end one. If it is genuinely an 'option', every model should come with a variant without this bar.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by philliphaydon on Sunday July 02, 2017 @10:58PM (#14685578)
Unsure if your comment is serious or not...

I'm yet to meet a single person who likes the touch bar after 1 month.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by threeseed on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:12AM (#14685981)
I'm unsure if your comment is serious or not.

How many Macbook Pro users have you surveyed ? And how do you think that compares to Apple who clearly did some product marketing work before adding a very expensive new feature.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by ff_ on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:04AM (#14685955)
New macbook user since 5 months, I totally LOVE the touch bar.

The only problem is the lack of ESC key really, but after you remap it to Caps Lock everything is good again.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by dotancohen on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:59AM (#14686132)
How do you remap it? Last I looked (when I was deciding whether or not to ditch CentOS for a Mac) swapping Esc and CapsLock on the Mac required third-party software and was a pain.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by cytzol on Monday July 03, 2017 @06:02AM (#14687121)
Since Sierra, you've been able to do it from within System Preferences, no hacks required!
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by simonbarker87 on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:30AM (#14686047)
On mine I've noticed that the left over space on the far left edge responds like an escape key most of the time - see if it does for you
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by simonbarker87 on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:31AM (#14686051)
7 months in, really like it. Much better than fixed keys.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by kalleboo on Sunday July 02, 2017 @10:59PM (#14685583)
3. Not for the 15". And the 13" one is gimped (fewer ports, slower WiFi, etc)
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by threeseed on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:14AM (#14685990)
Slower WiFi ? They both support the latest standard.

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by kalleboo on Monday July 03, 2017 @08:30AM (#14687757)
That doesn't specify the speed. If you read a review, the non-touchbar one is rated at 867Mbps vs 1.3Gbps for the touchbar model. I'm presuming the difference is in MIMO modes (fewer antennas?)

https://arstechnica.com/video/2016/11/the-2016-13-and-15-inc...

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by ValentineC on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:05PM (#14689766)
Yes, the non-touchbar MacBook Pro has a 2x2 MIMO wifi/Bluetooth chipset, while the touchbar one retains the 3x3 MIMO one from the older MacBook Pro.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by nickpeterson on Sunday July 02, 2017 @09:30PM (#14685326)
Oh, I didn't know I could get a 15" MacBook without one, nice to know.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by abrowne on Sunday July 02, 2017 @09:40PM (#14685361)
Even for the 13-inch, the two models aren't remotely similar outside the outer case. The one without the touchbar is really more like a MacBook Air with a 15W CPU.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by threeseed on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:17AM (#14686000)
Same display, same memory, same CPU class, same SSD technology, same ports, same keyboard, same WiFi/BT, same camera, same battery and battery life:

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

And for more money you can spec them identically.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by SyneRyder on Monday July 03, 2017 @08:27AM (#14687743)
Definitely not the same ports. The 13" without the Touch Bar only has two Thunderbolt 3 ports, not the four that the Touch Bar edition has.

And not the same CPUs. Max CPU speed without Touch Bar is 2.5Ghz, while the Touch Bar models begin at 3.1Ghz.

Different GPUs as well: Iris Plus 640 v Iris Plus 650.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by ValentineC on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:06PM (#14689778)
The wifi/BT chipset is different as well — the non-touchbar one is 2x2 MIMO and only goes up to 867Mbps.

It's a downgrade: the pre-touchbar MacBook Pros (and the touchbar ones) have 3x3 MIMO wifi/BT chipsets.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by dzhiurgis on Sunday July 02, 2017 @10:29PM (#14685507)
Useless, but keyboard itself is amazing.

It's like 10 years ago when first MacBooks came out with chiclet keys, while all other manufacturers used previous design (most of them finally shifted to chiclet by now). Typing on a regular laptop now feels like masochism.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by MagnumOpus on Monday July 03, 2017 @04:03AM (#14686664)
Chiclet is cheap. That is literally the only reason other manufacturers followed.

As to your strange preferences, I cannot understand them. Buckling spring keyboards are far more tactile and I resent that I cannot get them on "premium" products any more.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by FireBeyond on Sunday July 02, 2017 @11:40PM (#14685689)
Yeah, that's entirely subjective, both myself and my girlfriend _vastly_ prefer the keyboard on my XPS 9560 versus her Macbook.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by dzhiurgis on Monday July 03, 2017 @03:52AM (#14686610)
If you comparing with The Original MacBook (12") then yeah, that keyboard sucks.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by zitterbewegung on Monday July 03, 2017 @02:09AM (#14686170)
You mean the one that has a secure enclave for your fingerprint login? I probably will miss the function keys though, maybe they should make a non touchbar Mac with a touchid power button.
Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by NTripleOne on Monday July 03, 2017 @11:06AM (#14688766)
>a non touchbar Mac with a touchid power button.

That would make too much sense, Apple haven't done sense for a while now - people have called Apple form over function for a long time except now it's actually true, at least WRT their laptops.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by slantyyz on Sunday July 02, 2017 @11:20PM (#14685641)
>> butterfly keyboards are amazing once you get used to it

Curious - what makes them so "amazing"?

Speaking only for myself-- going back to the 80s, there has only ever been one keyboard that I've ever used that I couldn't get used to (Surface Pro Touch keyboard). For all the others, once I got used to them, I never really felt like one was better than another, just different.

Re:Differentiating laptops: How about a decent keyboard? (2015) by khedoros1 on Monday July 03, 2017 @01:14AM (#14685989)
I don't know about the Apple ones, but I've definitely got keyboards of different qualities. Right now, I'm on a Lenovo that was built for classroom use. They keys have a nice travel distance, and a bit of click then they trigger. It makes it comfortable to type on. I've also got an HP Envy. The keypresses are shallower, the first tactile indication that you've triggered the key is when it hits bottom, and the edges of the keys aren't rounded as nicely.

I know that one hurts my fingers after typing for a few hours, and the other one is pretty comfortable after that same time.