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Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by saurik on Sunday July 02, 2017 @02:22PM (#14683682)
The point being made here is heavily obfuscated to my eye due to the seemingly needless use of std::invoke when working with the lambda cases (which, even if useful for some reason, is not needed to make the point of this article), but when I finally figured out what is being requested all I could think of is "that functionality of std::bind is horrific and surprising and despite going into this article thinking that of course bind solves a slightly different problem to lambdas in a more readable way, you have now convinced me that std::bind should be deprecated ASAP" (though as it came into existence in the same version of C++ as lambda functions, I mostly end up questioning why it ever existed).

Essentially, in order to provide something that sort of feels like lambda functions, but entirely in templates, the placeholder arguments do not end up locked to a single expression--instead of returning something semantically like a function, std::bind returns something that might be better described as a partial syntax tree that happens to be something you can call as a function, at which point it is only then wrapped up as a function and all subexpression parameters are bound to arguments--and so if you bind something and include in it a bound function, that function is not passed as a value like you would expect: its parameter is hoisted and it becomes a call expression in the new bound composite. The author likes this behavior for some reason, but I can't figure out why it would ever be considered to be a feature and it is trivially simulated with lambdas (while the opposite is not true).

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by comex on Sunday July 02, 2017 @02:59PM (#14683832)
I don’t think it’s that the author likes the behavior, but that the author has in mind some rule where features can’t be deprecated unless it’s possible to write a purely mechanical migration tool. Not sure where that rule comes from or why it exists.
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by Karellen on Sunday July 02, 2017 @03:04PM (#14683851)
Yeah, that's the biggest question that came to my mind too. Why can't you deprecate something that needs fixing up manually?
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by CJefferson on Sunday July 02, 2017 @04:02PM (#14684084)
The idea is that if you want to deprecate something, you should tell people how to fix their code, so they can get working again with minimal work.

However, even if it could be fixed up, I don't think it will get deprecated.

C++ is (rightly in my mind) extremely cautious about removing things -- it's easy to ignore std::bind, it's just a library function. On the other hand, I'd be annoyed if my perfectly working C++ code base I've been building over 10 years just broke one day. One thing I love about C++ and C is that I can leave my code for 5 or even 10 years, come back, and expect it to still work just fine.

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by Karellen on Sunday July 02, 2017 @06:19PM (#14684642)
Hang on, deprecated != removed. Deprecated just means "do not use in new code", and you'll probably get a diagnostic by default for existing uses, which you might even be able to turn off with a compiler switch.

Also, not being able to create an automated tool to rewrite someone's code is not the same as not being able to tell them how to fix the code themselves.

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by gknoy on Sunday July 02, 2017 @06:42PM (#14684717)
> Deprecated just means "do not use in new code"

I originally learned that "deprecated" was meant to indicate that the language no longer promised to include that feature in a future version. So, it still works now, but this is your warning that you should be moving away from it.

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by djur on Sunday July 02, 2017 @10:59PM (#14685580)
The C++ standard defines it like that: "Normative for the current edition of the Standard, but having been identified as a candidate for removal from future revisions. An implementation may declare library names and entities described in this section with the `deprecated` attribute."
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by kazinator on Sunday July 02, 2017 @08:01PM (#14684978)
Merriam-Webster gives these meanings for "deprecate": "to pray against something, such as an evil (archaic)", "to avert", "to play down" (e.g. one's talent), "to express disapproval of, to disparage".
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by kazinator on Monday July 03, 2017 @11:19AM (#14688862)
How this definition is relevant is that the word is used specifically for features that are looked down upon as being harmful in some way, and so using them in programs is creates some kind of risk in addition to "this won't build when it goes away".

The dictionary meaning which comes into play in the software maintenance use of "deprecated" is that "disapprove/disparage" one.

Something that will be removed because it is unfashionable, and being replaced by shiny new idioms, is "obsolescent". Rather than abruptly removing such features, we phase them through an obsolescence period.

Deprecated example: the C gets function (almost impossible to use without creating a security hole, now removed from ISO C).

Obsolescent example: bzero function. (Appears in tradtional BSD sockets networking code, superseded by memset).

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by kazinator on Sunday July 02, 2017 @07:58PM (#14684968)
"deprecated" means "this is inferior garbage that's going away for that reason".

It's a black stain on any code which uses it, old or new.

A neutral word for "going away" is "obsolescent".

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by lklklkj2342487 on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:14PM (#14684379)
Isn't it what the standard compiler switch is for? For instance if your codebase builds fine with -std=c++17 and std::bind would have been removed in C++20, your code base would still compile fine because the compiler would figure it out.
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by CJefferson on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:36PM (#14684482)
Unfortunately, that's hard in C++ because lots of code often ends up in headers because templated code must be in headers, and so then you can't link a C++17 and a C++20 library together (for example). Also, it's nice to be able to use new features without having to go and re-write lots of existing code.

It does however fix the basic problem of a complete program.

Hopefully, one day modules will fix this and we'll be able to link modules from different versions of C++ together, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by sillysaurus3 on Sunday July 02, 2017 @03:12PM (#14683883)
C++ code bases are massive. It would be a nice rule to stick to, honestiy.
Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by detaro on Sunday July 02, 2017 @02:31PM (#14683714)
quotes from the article:

> which is likely working by accident, rather than design.

> At the time, it made some sense. But it makes reasoning about bind expressions difficult. Don’t do this.

> Example of fail code

Where do you get the idea the author likes it?! To me it reads more "it's stupid, but this edge case can't be trivially replaced and thus we can't just rip it out"

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by prance on Sunday July 02, 2017 @05:20PM (#14684408)
> instead of returning something semantically like a function, std::bind returns something that might be better described as a partial syntax tree that happens to be something you can call as a function

Indeed. std::bind seems to work more like a Lisp-ish macro than a function in this regard.

Re:Why std::bind can’t be formally deprecated by slezyr on Sunday July 02, 2017 @04:25PM (#14684174)
> you have now convinced me that std::bind should be deprecated ASAP

Once made a mistake using std::bind and got 500 lines of errors.