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Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by sidlls on Friday June 30, 2017 @07:26PM (#14674193)
"It's okay if you're attractive enough" is wrong on multiple levels no matter how it's phrased.
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by kelukelugames on Friday June 30, 2017 @10:30PM (#14675010)
Maybe the best way to phrase this is "If there is mutual attraction." Plenty of people marry their co workers. And there are plenty of non creepy/harassing ways to figure out if someone else is interested.
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by sidlls on Friday June 30, 2017 @10:43PM (#14675058)
That's a bit of a different scenario, though. The statement I objected to is sexist in at least one of these two ways: 1) it presumes that women appreciate these advances from men in positions of power simply because they're attractive (i.e. that harrassment is "forgiven by default" if it's done by an attractive guy) or, 2) women are vacuous and easily charmed by attractive men to the point where they don't recognize sexual harassment for what it is.
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by sillysaurus3 on Friday June 30, 2017 @10:51PM (#14675080)
It probably isn't sexist to say that people appreciate advances from someone who is extremely attractive, as long as both are available and looking.

The problem is that it's inappropriate to express interest if you're in a position of power over someone, whether you're a man or a woman. I think you were saying that, but point #1 lacks that context.

Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by sidlls on Friday June 30, 2017 @11:03PM (#14675117)
That's fair, and I edited my comment to reflect that.
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by bt4u on Friday June 30, 2017 @11:50PM (#14675277)
Are there? Please explain them to me. I'm serious and want to learn
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by sokoloff on Saturday July 01, 2017 @12:07AM (#14675329)
(Assuming no supervisory relationship or other power imbalance,)

Make an introduction. Make your mild/budding interest in them clear enough. Ask them to do something that's clearly not work with you.

"Hey, want to get coffee sometime this weekend?"

You'll find out if there's preliminary interest or not. If they're interested but busy, they'll figure out how to make that distinction clear. If "sorry; I'm busy" is the entire answer, just assume they're not interested. You get one "free" chance here; make it fairly clear that you're interested; don't invite them out for a "team dinner" and then arrange for the rest of the team to not show up or other chicanery.

Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by morgante on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:10AM (#14675982)
Unfortunately, it's not quite that easy. Sometimes it's not clear that you're asking them on a date. Ex. I've asked a professional associate out for drinks. I thought it was a date, she didn't, and she was offended when I tried to flirt a little. (I stopped once I realized she wasn't interested, but it could have been offensive.)

Personally, I've stopped ever pursuing anyone who works in the same industry due to the potential for weird dynamics, but it's sometimes not as cut-and-dry as people make it sound. Like the example with Chris Sacca, is flirting with someone at a conference a form of sexual harassment?

Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by meric on Saturday July 01, 2017 @01:22AM (#14675527)
That chicanery happens when the man is insecure and thinks a woman won't go out with him unless it's a team dinner. If there's a magic potion to turn an insecure man to become more secure without the man doing stupid things and screwing up asking out women, you'd make trillions.
Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by csomar on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:41AM (#14676100)
I'm not saying what sokoloff said is wrong (or doesn't work) but I'd not invite a woman (or a person) to coffee before getting a physical approval. This physical approval (eye contact + smile) is usually a certain indicator of interest. I'm talking about same level co-worker.

I'd not go with a co-worker that I have power on (like being the direct manager, or the VC). I can see many ways where the relationship can go awfully wrong.

Re:Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe... by morgante on Saturday July 01, 2017 @04:53AM (#14676146)
How do you get physical approval without flirting?

I have eye contact and smiling with lots of people. It's just being friendly.