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Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by hinkley on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:06PM (#14664916)
In this case a bunch of former Java devs touching Java for the first time in a while. There could be something to that.

Could be they've forgotten how, but this isn't the first experience like this. I am doing fine with the tools even though they don't do everything when the language is not statically typed).

Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by reitanqild on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:25PM (#14665069)
I'm afraid it is common.

Java isn't perfect and when people also treat their IDE as a glorified text editor I think it is no wonder they dislike it.

(If you go with Java, embrace it. This is probably the thing I disliked most about the way programming was taught in school: they used Java, but without the tooling that makes it awesome. Supposedly so we should learn it well.

If anyone here teaches Java: by all mean have your students use javac in the first assignmemt but teach them maven the very next thing you do. Learn them to use an IDE - it's not harmful as long as you don't accept autogenerated code.)

Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by poikniok on Thursday June 29, 2017 @01:50PM (#14665338)
What is wrong with autogenerated code?
Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by reitanqild on Thursday June 29, 2017 @02:04PM (#14665472)
Nothing. There is nothing wrong with code generation in a production setting with "grown up" engineers who uses version control and knows the pitfalls.

The part in parenthesis is just a rant about education and how teachers use notepad and javac to teach Java.

So my point is the only thing students shouldn't use in an IDE is code generation.

Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by copperx on Thursday June 29, 2017 @09:54PM (#14668188)
But going from javac to Maven in CS1 would be insanely difficult; there are many prerequisites before one can use Maven. It may only work in top-tier schools.
Re:TDD did not live up to expectations by reitanqild on Thursday June 29, 2017 @11:42PM (#14668505)
I'd say quite the contrary:

If I had been given a zip with a basic pom file and the correct main and test directories I think I'd had a much simpler start.