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Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by revelation on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @07:56AM (#14653331)
That is not what springs to mind, more "why the fuck are you reimplementing DNS in init".

Like, this stuff was built tens of years ago and that code is crappy too but we have pretty much got rid of the most obvious security issues. Nobody wants to relive history so you can finally implement a broken DNS client.

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by vertex-four on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:14AM (#14653414)
systemd is not "just" init, it's a suite of various tools, most of which (including systemd-resolved) don't run as PID 1. It's a monolith by the fact that this project decided to take over a variety of normal system daemons and make it as difficult as possible to use many of them without using the rest - it's not a monolith in the sense of everything running in the same process.

I believe systemd-resolved, however, is one of those components that is entirely optional, and which nothing explicitly depends on... which makes it weird that Ubuntu chose to use it by default.

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by icebraining on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:31AM (#14653510)
Ubuntu already had a resolver installed by default on desktops (dnsmasq). They decided to switch because:

we picked "resolved" as that is small and lightweight, already present (part of the systemd package), does not require D-Bus (unlike dnsmasq), supports DNSSEC, provides transparent fallback to contacting the real DNS servers directly (in case anything goes wrong with the local resolver), and avoids the first issue above that /etc/resolv.conf always shows 127.0.0.1.

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by feld on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @10:47AM (#14654574)
DNSSEC is dead and useless unless every application is written to understand the error messages and every device runs its own DNS resolver (not forwarding, because it's not really validating then and the responses could be spoofed).

We don't need DNSSEC because it doesn't solve any existing problems. The validation is done at the application protocol level with TLS, and apps that aren't running TLS need to fix this gap.

So as it turns out DNSCrypt is winning the internet even though the standards bodies blocked it. Additionally, OpenDNS has massive deployment of DNSCrypt users and this is being furthered by Cisco Umbrella. Cisco is adding this capability to iPhones now as announced earlier this week.

tl;dr DNSSEC has always been DOA, but DNSCrypt is just getting started.

The one and only application I knew of that added DNSSEC for DANE removed it because it was worthless (irssi, irc client).

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by talideon on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @09:53AM (#14654062)
dnsmasq doesn't require dbus though: that's an optional dependency that has to be enabled at compile time.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by vbernat on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @11:41AM (#14655060)
To make it work with Network Manager, it needs DBus support. So distributions compile it with DBus support.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by digi_owl on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @03:36PM (#14657506)
So eliminate Network Mangler, two problems with one stone...
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by talideon on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @01:19PM (#14656070)
Sure, but the key there is NetworkManager. dnsmasq itself doesn't require DBus.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by detaro on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @05:40PM (#14658734)
How does systemd-resolved work with NM? If the goal in general is to have a non-dbus version when NM isn't used, then provide both versions as packages.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by digi_owl on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:40AM (#14653546)
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by icebraining on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:49AM (#14653589)
Are you confusing "can use" with "requires"?
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by digi_owl on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:52AM (#14653608)
I suspect any alternative is a fall back that cause as much troubles as it "solves". After all, the principle devs of systemd are all very much in love with dbus (bloody thing require a copy to be started by initramfs even).
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by JdeBP on Thursday June 29, 2017 @09:12AM (#14662980)
You are missing the part where the user manual and the systemd new features announcement state that the Desktop Bus API is systemd-resolved's "native, fully-featured API"; and describe the GNU C library NSS API and the DNS APIs as limited functionality APIs, whose avoidance by applications is "strongly recommended" in the case of the latter.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by setq on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:31AM (#14653512)
Indeed. It's not just init, it's Windows service manager, COM, MSMQ, task scheduler and event log and all the associated problems in one convenient package for Linux!
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by talideon on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @09:54AM (#14654070)
Not just that, but it's both a floor polish and a dessert topping!
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by interestingemu on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:31AM (#14653513)
> I believe systemd-resolved, however, is one of those components that is entirely optional, and which nothing explicitly depends on...

Yet. Wouldn't be the first time some "optional" component became mandatory.

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by icebraining on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:34AM (#14653524)
Which optional systemd components became mandatory?
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by dijit on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:38AM (#14653538)
Journald
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by icebraining on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:44AM (#14653563)
When was journald optional?
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by dijit on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @09:06AM (#14653699)
When systemd first landed in Fedora 16.

You could use syslog or journald (or both. But journald was optional)

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by icebraining on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @09:19AM (#14653791)
Journald didn't even exist when Fedora 16 was released, so how could it be optional?

Meanwhile, from the first public document of journald[1], it was always designed as an indispensable component of systemd.

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBA...

Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by dijit on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @02:23PM (#14656839)
I have strong memories of installing it on fedora 16 long before the 17 release was announced. I don't know about intent but I was a very avid fedora user and I was pro-journald before it was forced down my throat.
Re:Ubuntu Systemd Vulnerability by s_kilk on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @08:07AM (#14653376)
> "why the fuck are you reimplementing DNS in init"

Because systemd