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Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by ChuckMcM on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:11PM (#14640809)
This is where I fall on the spectrum. I can understand someone wanting their house to evoke some notion of grandeur but really if it isn't functional the effort feels wasted to me.

That said, I have always felt ridiculing other people's taste to be fairly mean. And while there are/were some solid points in the blog about design and things that 'look right' and things that 'look wrong' it could often come across fairly harshly. And even if you disclaim that with "I'm talking about the house, not you." since the owner likes the house enough to own it and not change it, it really is kind of about them too.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by toufka on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:35PM (#14640977)
All the more reason the blog is so useful. I'd hate to think with all the modern technology around us that the house I live in 'just doesn't feel right' because it was not built employing the past dozen millennia-worth of architectural knowledge at our social disposal. Just because I am not an architect doesn't mean I want to be swindled into an unknowingly unpleasant home. Just because I'm not an architect of CPUs doesn't mean I'd be willing to have a computer run poorly given my investment in a new computer - even if I like the processor's name and it has lots of gigahertzes.

No one finds the tech reviewer 'mean' for saying the processor is slower at particular benchmarks according to our present technological measure. Why is this so different - if in fact what is being put to the measure is a human technology and not simply taste. And even then, many 'tasteful' architectural features only exist because of some function - and missing that function they are actually only taste.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by emodendroket on Monday June 26, 2017 @07:02PM (#14641155)
A lot of time on that blog was spent mocking purely aesthetic features of the homes and I feel like if you like the aesthetic then there is not much else to consider.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by dnautics on Monday June 26, 2017 @08:59PM (#14641753)
But I don't think even people who acquire or live in those homes like the esthetic. Remember,mcmansions wind up the way they are because they're ticking off a list of 'things that algorithmically increase the home value'. That's what creates a sense of Inbalance and forces the house to contort into strange forms.

Most denizens, I suspect, probably feel that something is not quite right but couldn't put their finger on it quickly enough to stop their purchase or possibly more cynically, don't care until they flip the house.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by emodendroket on Monday June 26, 2017 @09:36PM (#14641924)
Maybe so. I dunno. I don't feel like I have a clear sense of what distinguishes a "McMansion" from "recently-built house in a more or less modern style."
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by eropple on Monday June 26, 2017 @09:54PM (#14641993)
This is a pretty good architectural round-up: https://www.homestratosphere.com/home-architecture-styles/

If you look at these, you'll notice something: they're by and large consistent within themselves and the author of that piece is often (and I say "often" because it's a pop piece) able to tell you what aspects the architects of that style are focusing on. Any given style of architecture might not be your thing, but I bet that you can see commonalities of design within a given design family. In particular it's worth looking at horizontal lines (stories of a house); it's sometimes fashionable for different stories of a house to differ stylistically, but do different parts of the house, including the roof, differ notably on that horizontal line?

One of the deadest giveaways as to whether you can reasonably call it a "McMansion": look at the windows. Some of the houses on McMansion Hell have six different styles of window on the same story of the house. Sometimes they just look plastered on, like the house was built and somebody said "let's add a window there". It's not just bad taste, which has a lot of variance--it's also incoherence, and while there is some taste in evaluating whether various elements that a design adopts cohere together, there's a reasonable-person test there that doesn't really exist for like-it/don't-like-it. McMansions like the ones under discussion are incoherent because they're not designed for coherence, they're designed to tick off boxes in a "How To Increase The Value Of The Thing You're Flipping" checklist. (Few McMansions are built by the owners.) They're zits on a good neighborhood.

Ever heard the adage, learn the rules in order to break them? An analogy that I like is with regard to painting: a cubist Picasso and realist Courbet are both technically masterful and appealing works, but if you mash them together the point becomes that they don't work together at all. And that can be fine--maybe the point of what you're doing is to highlight that discordance--but if you do it without understanding how and why they work, you're just creating a trainwreck.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by DonHopkins on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:50PM (#14642441)
It looks like people are 3D printing houses [1] their children designed in The Sims [2].

[1] https://www.engadget.com/2017/03/07/apis-cor-3d-printed-hous...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJI5EajBNEs

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by ryandrake on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:01PM (#14642028)
While there may not be One True Definition, and there's room to agree and disagree, there are attributes people probably could agree are tasteless and help qualify a house as a McMansion:

* No clear architectural style, or a haphazard/incoherent mix of styles

* Brick or stone facades in front, and cheap siding on the (less visible) sides

* Non-structural arches and columns

* Oddly placed/sized windows

* Multiple roof lines, chimneys and dormers

To the extent that a "Recently built house in a more or less modern style" incorporates these elements, it can be considered more or less a McMansion.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by trentmb on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @12:03AM (#14642495)
> * No clear architectural style, or a haphazard/incoherent mix of styles

Isn't that just a new style?

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by fsloth on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @04:52AM (#14643473)
Uh, no, it's noise synthesis.

The point is, with the effort and money spent, the houses are not even necessarily nice to live in when the designer just adds a hodge podge of features. The critique may sound elitist but the actual defects are concrete once you notice them and not just 'accept and adapt' to them.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by emodendroket on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @06:38AM (#14643992)
The first bullet point, anyway, is also typical of any house that's been around a while.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by dagw on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @07:16AM (#14644274)
There is a fundamental difference between a 17th century house with wing added in the 19th century and garage added in the 20th century, and a 21st century house trying to mimic that look.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by taneq on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @12:35AM (#14642608)
> Most denizens, I suspect, probably feel that something is not quite right

Do they, though? Maybe they're completely happy with their houses and we're just assuming the grapes are sour.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by sangnoir on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @07:07AM (#14644206)
> A lot of time on that blog was spent mocking purely aesthetic features of the homes

A lot of time on HN is spent mocking "gamer aesthetic" on hardware the commenter would have otherwise actually liked to use. Garish LED-lighting, bulky-looks and oblique angles aren't my thing either, but HN loves to complain about McKeyboards, McHeadphones, McLaptops and McCases.

"Gamer aesthetic" and "McMansion aethetic" are valid phenomena and people have the right to critique those tastes without invoking classism, despite the sense of superiorioty occasionally found in the consumers of both.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by mrep on Monday June 26, 2017 @08:43PM (#14641668)
I totally agree. That website came off to me as very pretentious in that everyone should adhere to her personal taste when I actually liked how some of the homes looked.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by mschaef on Monday June 26, 2017 @07:21PM (#14641248)
> Why is this so different

Benchmarks are at least attempting to be objective.

Also, there's a difference between mocking a company's product and mocking a house that is 1) an individual's home 2) their largest investment and 3) is likely, these days, to represent a significant financial liability.

I don't like McMansions much myself, but I can absolutely sympathize with people that want an affordable way to get more space for their family, etc. (Or people that have been sucked by the hedonic treadmill into a vortex of debt, high utility payments, etc.) They're probably suffering enough already.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by prklmn on Monday June 26, 2017 @08:10PM (#14641509)
> an affordable way to get more space for their family

Did you see the asking prices before the content was taken down? I don't remember any of the houses being affordable in any regard

> vortex of debt

It takes a special person to sympathize with someone living so far beyond their means that they take a $1 million (my average price estimate from the website) mortgage that they can't actually afford

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by mschaef on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:14PM (#14642088)
> It takes a special person to sympathize with someone living so far beyond their means that they take a $1 million (my average price estimate from the website) mortgage that they can't actually afford

They'll suffer enough without help. The world is difficult enough without pushing people down because it's funny or a way to 'improve the quality of architecture' or whatever.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by dagw on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:39AM (#14643224)
I can absolutely sympathize with people that want an affordable way to get more space for their family

But a McMansion will almost always cost you more than a more 'modest' house offering the same amount of space. Also that house will almost certainly be better constructed.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by mschaef on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @10:23AM (#14645623)
> But a McMansion will almost always cost you more than a more 'modest' house offering the same amount of space.

Lots of variables there. Construction is usually estimated in terms of price per square feet, and property values can represent a substantial fraction of the total price of the house. A 'modest', 'old' house in a good location can be vastly more expensive than a 'McMansion' built out in the suburbs or something. Also McMansions are usually built where land is cheaper, so more space.

For families with children, there is also the cost of education to consider. There are scenarios where avoiding the need to use a private school to educate your children can completely pay the cost of a home in the suburbs. (Even considering property taxes). The house can effectively burn to the ground when you're done educating your kids and you'd wind up net money ahead compared to where you might have been with a more modest house and private schooling.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by majewsky on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @05:58AM (#14643752)
It's a tradeoff. Clearly pointing out the issues might educate the next generation of customers how to design a better house at a lower price point.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by Hydraulix989 on Monday June 26, 2017 @09:46PM (#14641962)
Are you affiliated with that site? Only reason I ask is because of the McM in your name?
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by PhasmaFelis on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:46PM (#14642211)
Check the profile. His last name is McManis.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by DonHopkins on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:59PM (#14642484)
I remember him from Sun, where he was both a great engineer and a great architect. Looks like he's moved on from TCP/IP to HVAC. ;)

http://www.sunengineering.net/PROJECTS/Residential/TheBackSh...

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by ChuckMcM on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @12:16AM (#14642529)
Ok, that is just hilarious! Of course that Chuck comes from the 'McManus' side of the family not the 'McManis' side.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by DonHopkins on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @12:36AM (#14642613)
When I saw "high efficiency media filters" I was sure it must be your work.