Re:Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists
by coldpie on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:07AM
(#14618860)
Okay, so why doesn't it work? You can complain about drivers all you like, but fundamentally car traffic and bike traffic are incompatible. You can't expect a driver traveling at 30 MPH on a 30 MPH road to suddenly and calmly accept that they are now traveling 10 MPH because of the guy in front of them. Swap the biker for a driver going 20 MPH under the speed limit and you're looking at a road rage situation. Sharing the road is a terrible solution. It doesn't work.
Must be so difficult for them sitting down in a temperature controlled environment with audio entertainment burning massive amounts of non-renewable energy while taking up much more than their own width in space in an already cramped urban environment. I'm really feeling for the driver here. It's definitely the cyclist causing all the congestion in the first place.
I most certainly can expect that of them. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If they can't follow the rules of the road then they should not be driving. That's like saying you can't expect a car driving 30MPH to have to stop because their a person in the crosswalk in front of them, pedestrians crossing streets is a situation engineered to fail.
If we view them as incompatible then the solution is rather obvious but to the disadvantage of the car traffic. The current cooperation between bike traffic and car traffic is to allow bike traffic without disrupting existing car traffic.
For roads where there is street parking you simply dedicate that for bike lanes and force car owners to use the more expensive parking houses. This influence the commercial flow a bit unless the space between parking houses is minimal in commercial districts.
In proportion to bike ownership you also need to remake roads which are too narrow and make them dedicated bike lanes. The proportionality clause here is really important to balance the interest of both groups if we want to view roads as incompatible to be used by both.
Re:Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists
by Tommyixi on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:21AM
(#14618935)
You're insinuating that since the road cannot be shared then bikes should not be allowed on them. It does work when people are respectful of others and aren't always in such a rush all the time.
Re:Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists
by coldpie on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:27AM
(#14618986)
Yes, that is the unfortunate truth. Humans are stupid, rushed, and fallible. Expecting them to override 50+ years of cars owning the roads because you put up a street sign is misguided. If it cannot be done safely, it should not be done. If we want more biking, we need to make it safe. "Sharing the road" is stupid and unsafe, like the OP says. We need a different solution.
Strange that is was like that for ages in the Netherlands. On minor residential roads the speed limit is now usually 30 km/h (around 20 MPH), but is was 50 km/h for a long time (30 MPH). Often a car has to wait to overtake a bike.
Of course if cyclists can rely on cars to pass them carefully, they can move all the way to the side to let the car pass. But that doesn't work with aggressive car drivers.
Re:Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists
by TulliusCicero on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:50AM
(#14619113)
If the road/street is wide enough then there should be separated bike paths. If the road is narrow then the speed limit should probably be lower anyway.
And you know what else is a ridiculous demand on drivers: stop signs! When they demand I drop from 40mph to zero, you can't be surprised that I don't just lie down and take it. Sure, I legally "shouldn't" have stolen all the stop signs on my commute, but if that's wrong, then screw being right. What am I stopping for anyway? Nothing in my way deserves to survive the morning.
Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."