Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by dragonwriter on Wednesday June 21, 2017 @02:02PM
(#14606325)
> Poverty is worse than most natural disasters and worse than most of the predicted consequences of climate change.
Exacerbation of poverty, both absolutely and relative, is among the predicted consequences of climate change.
Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by api on Wednesday June 21, 2017 @02:46PM
(#14606773)
I am discussing perception and social behavior, not reality per se. That may be the case but that's not how people see it when their jobs are being destroyed.
Wealth also brings the luxury of long-sighted thinking. When you're poor the only concern you have is getting out of poverty right now.
Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by ajmurmann on Wednesday June 21, 2017 @01:53PM
(#14606224)
I'm not sure if it's not understanding poverty or actively not caring. The US is do divided that I think the sympathy level between the "elites" and "real America" might be so low that many actually care more about Manta Rays going extinct than people in there middle of the country having a life worth living. Who doesn't prefer seeing a Manta Ray over losing an election?
I feel this might be the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about. We need to address this very badly.
Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by zghst on Wednesday June 21, 2017 @01:56PM
(#14606263)
Increasing wealth and standard of living means more consumers, more people not living off of the land. More people taking deals from the US or China, losing their sovereignty and self determination, becoming more politically unstable due to outside intervention, leading to wars, disputes, etc. Poverty is all relative, I seriously consider if our intervention due to naive altruism really helps or hurts the people there.
Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by keenerd on Thursday June 22, 2017 @10:10AM
(#14612321)
> An American cannot even eat on $2k/year
Baloney. It is easy to stay under $1.5K/year per person and that includes a pound of fresh fruit/veg each day. I've never even tried to save money either; no coupon clipping, no buying in bulk. Learn to cook. With a small amount of practice you'll be "fast enough" too, where it'll take less time for you to cook/clean than to eat out.
Re:Populism and the Economics of Globalization [pdf]
by api on Friday June 23, 2017 @12:53PM
(#14620630)
Where do you live? Even in little towns and with shared housing the rent is going to be >$10k/year. In larger cities you can forget about it. Detroit is probably the best real estate bargain in America, and you can't live there on $2k/year.
"It's better to reign in hell."
Poverty is worse than most natural disasters and worse than most of the predicted consequences of climate change. I'm willing to bet that the infant mortality rate in Miami is lower during a category five hurricane than it is in a crushingly poor society in perfect weather.
People will burn the world to escape poverty. It's better to reign in hell.
Poverty is also relative due not only to the hedonic treadmill effect but to relative differences in cost of living. An American cannot even eat on $2k/year and in many places you need a minimum of $40k+ per year to afford basic housing. We have an inflationary economy, which means that anything not increasing is decreasing. You can plunge a first world person into poverty by just not inflating their wages for a while. Now add a ridiculous debt load and high unemployment.
This is why we need to drop what I call "abstinence based environmentalism." The only hope that we have of evading a global environmental catastrophe is paradoxically to increase wealth and standard of living as much as possible. Not only does this make people open to conservation but it also reduces birth rates. Trying to deny wealth to conserve resources will have the paradoxical effect of promoting short term greed and increasing birth rates. It will also lead to conflict and destabilize the international political order, making large scale cooperation on global environmental challenges impossible.
First world morons who romanticize poverty drive me nuts. These folks are either hopelessly naive, delusional, or crypto-elitist. I heard it put this way once: "Rap music comes mostly from poor inner city neighborhoods. That's why it's full of references to money and getting rich. Poor people know that money actually does matter. Only rich people can afford the luxury of not caring about money." I forget where I read that (years ago) but it's spot on.