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Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by wooter on Friday June 16, 2017 @12:16PM (#14570189)
no thanks. look at what collective/forced/politicized bickering over hours has done to the job market everywhere its been tried. look at the corruption. i enjoy my freedom to negotiate my terms as I, as an individual, and my employer see fit.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by deong on Friday June 16, 2017 @01:21PM (#14570820)
I lived and worked in Iceland for five years, and they have a virtually 100% unionization rate. It's handled at the industry level rather than individual companies, but when you start a job, you are pretty much automatically enrolled in the union relevant for your work. A little money comes out of your paycheck, and the union is there in case you have problems.

The unions also provide other benefits. For example, most of them own summer houses that any member can reserve to go spend a weekend away. You rarely hear the average Icelander on either side of the worker/manager divide complain about them at all. Everyone more or less views them as beneficial.

Once or twice a year they make headlines when one group of workers or another feels aggrieved and it escalates to a brief strike in some small sector of the economy, but on the whole, I don't think many Icelanders would trade their system of employment for ours.

Like so many other areas, I think the problem is that we in the US are just so very much worse at running our society and country than most other comparable countries. Look at health care. No one liked the ACA; no will will like the AHCA or whatever the Republicans pass. The problem isn't that it's impossible to do a decent job at a health care system. The problem is that we specifically suck. Put us in charge of anything, and we'll turn it into something awful that doesn't work, but provides some brief period of outsized shareholder value.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by puranjay on Saturday June 17, 2017 @10:45AM (#14576108)
I'm always skeptical whenever someone parades a Scandinavian country as an example of anything. The nature of their economies (Norway's massive oil wealth, for example) and the size of their populations means that lessons from these countries are rarely applicable to the US, China, India or other large countries.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by jacobsenscott on Friday June 16, 2017 @01:37PM (#14571013)
The population of the US is 100x more than Iceland. There are a lot of well run small cities in the US. Iceland's policies would never scale up.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by kilotaras on Saturday June 17, 2017 @05:51AM (#14575080)
"German autobahn system would never work in US, it has 2x population and 25x area". - Someone in 1955, shortly before Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by taway_1212 on Saturday June 17, 2017 @10:17AM (#14575984)
> The population of the US is 100x more than Iceland.

Actually, it's 1000x.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by jacobsenscott on Monday June 19, 2017 @09:59PM (#14591714)
Oops. Thanks for the correction.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by Retra on Friday June 16, 2017 @03:48PM (#14572106)
Why not?
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by sqeaky on Friday June 16, 2017 @06:51PM (#14573164)
"It wouldn't scale up" is common conservative response to progressive or liberal comparisons that involve suggestions of doing it (anything) some other way.

So while the EU plugs away making incremental improvements each year we keep jumping around in fits and spurts forward and backward. There is still a strong belief of American Exceptionalism even in fields where we are clearly inferior. Look at Healthcare Europe figured something out that we didn't and their is cheaper and better.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by Retra on Friday June 16, 2017 @08:35PM (#14573596)
Well, there could be legitimate reason that it couldn't scale up, but... "necessity is the mother of invention" and I don't feel it should be left at that. (Particularly on HN, where people seem to take inordinate pride in their ability to find ways of scaling things up.)
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by delazeur on Saturday June 17, 2017 @09:32AM (#14575822)
Right. If someone is going to make that argument, they should be expected to at least explain why something won't scale up.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by jacobsenscott on Monday June 19, 2017 @10:08PM (#14591739)
Iceland is demographically homogenous (over 90% Icelandic), and 64% of their population lives in one city. It is fairly easy for that kind of grouping of people to reach agreement on things because they have a lot of common interests, and a shared history and culture.

As you "scale up" in diversity, population, and geographic distribution the set of things people can agree on falls off dramatically.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by deong on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @11:29AM (#14595346)
I love how people like to explain things to me as though a wikipedia article presents something over actual knowledge and experience.

Iceland has a very divisive political system at the moment. The ruling government has been a coalition of the Progressive and Independence parties, roughly the european versions of the social conservative and pro-business factions of the Republican party respectively. Though it should be said that no one in Iceland really touches quite how regressive American social conservatives are. And, of course, being (sort-of) Scandinavian, there's a massively strong Social Democrat/Pirate/Left-green contingent in the Reykjavik area that can't stand the agenda of the main ruling parties.

Iceland doesn't function because they manage to get people to agree more than Americans do. There are something like 13 political parties in an average election, and they stand in bitter opposition to one another across a huge variety of issues. Iceland functions because they make their government function anyway. Nothing about being small makes it easier for two opposing parties to somehow figure out a way to get the damned bills paid. You could replace the entire American republic with Donald Trump and Barack Obama, and we'd get no more done than we do today, because the government isn't trying to solve problems. They're trying to preserve whatever problem is most plausibly the fault of the other party.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by losteric on Saturday June 17, 2017 @12:21AM (#14574242)
The US political system is inherently divisive, its no surprise we struggle with social cohesion required for a mature stable capitalist democracy.

We need new political platforms focused on consensus-based policies. Not distinguishing our groups from "the other"

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by aeorgnoieang on Friday June 16, 2017 @03:31PM (#14571975)
Comparing the US to Iceland is an extremely unfair comparison.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by objclxt on Friday June 16, 2017 @02:07PM (#14571293)
You are mixing up blue collar and white collar unions.

Go look at the film industry, and the Writers / Directors / Screen Actors Guilds. The WGA doesn't stop screenwriters from negotiating their own terms. Do you think someone like JJ Abrams is getting paid the WGA set fees? That Tom Cruise works SAG and Equity rates? Of course not.

The point of the guilds in these industries is to set minimum standards for pay and benefits. It is designed to stop studios from exploiting people desperate to work in the industry. I majored in film and many of my classmates have gone on to work in Hollywood - I don't know anyone of them who would say their unions aren't a good thing.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by alasdair_ on Friday June 16, 2017 @06:28PM (#14573086)
>It is designed to stop studios from exploiting people desperate to work in the industry.

Would you say that it works?

My understanding is that these unions make it more difficult for new people "desperate to work in the industry" to actually break into the industry.

Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by Kalium on Friday June 16, 2017 @07:03PM (#14573212)
What do you think "protecting them from exploitation" means?
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by anigbrowl on Friday June 16, 2017 @12:53PM (#14570530)
Sure you do...now. You might find yourself in very different circumstances in the future.
Re:Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B by delazeur on Saturday June 17, 2017 @09:35AM (#14575834)
You are never going to be able to negotiate for yourself on an equal footing with a corporation, but unions can achieve a close approximation.