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Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by BrainInAJar on Monday June 12, 2017 @03:54PM (#14540513)
As a Canadian tech worker in SF... Nope. I tripled my salary coming down here even in just nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 25% of your salary.)

I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by ohhhwell on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:14PM (#14540698)
Unrelated tangent: It always baffle me how people view exchange rate as something that can "eat away your salary" and when you see people making statements like "it's so expensive in the UK, a pound is like 130% of a dollar". Makes me wonder if people who are only used to currencies that are roughly on the same scale view currencies in a different way than people who are used to 10x / 100x differences in currencies.

Don't mean to pick at your comment, but it's something I've seen around lately and makes me wonder.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by gricardo99 on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:30PM (#14540838)
I think you misunderstand the comment about exchange rate. In Canada, the price difference of goods with the U.S. is beyond just the exchange rate. Thus, you can convert a salary between USD and CAD, but that doesn't account for higher prices of goods in Canada (beyond exchange rate differences). This is why many Canadians shop in the U.S. (if feasible), or travel to the U.S. to make big purchases (such as cars). When CAD gets stronger, w.r.t. USD, prices in Canada don't respond proportionately. Likewise, when CAD gets weaker, prices in Canada tend to respond quite rapidly. It seems asymmetric, and is another factor when comparing US/Canada cost of living. I'd love for an economist to explain this. It's never really made sense to me, but anecdotally, it's well known phenomenon in Canada.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by grotsnot on Monday June 12, 2017 @05:51PM (#14541416)
IANAE but it sounds like when imports get cheaper, importers pocket as much of the the difference for as long as they can get away with it. When imports get more expensive, they pass on as much as they can to consumers as quickly as they can get away with it. Not terribly surprising for profit-driven behavior.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by gricardo99 on Monday June 12, 2017 @07:14PM (#14541891)
That sounds about right. Also, there's some cost to readjusting prices, so that probably introduces some price change hysteresis.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by FT_intern on Monday June 12, 2017 @06:35PM (#14541669)
The sales tax in canada is brutal
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by kogepathic on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @05:46AM (#14543751)
Not really. The highest sales tax is 15% (NB, NL, NS, PEI).

I'll grant that's higher than in some US states, but come over to Europe where VAT is usually 19-25%. Although at least in Europe prices are advertised including VAT, so no mental math is required to calculate how much it will end up costing.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by Amezarak on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @01:56PM (#14546967)
That's higher than in all US states. The highest US state sales tax is 7.25%. The highest municipal+state sales tax is 12.8%.

That's a huge outlier, though. The average is 5%, and many states exempt huge swaths of goods (such as groceries) and some have no sales tax at all.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by kogepathic on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @02:56AM (#14551090)
> and many states exempt huge swaths of goods (such as groceries) and some have no sales tax at all.

Groceries are exempt from GST/PST or HST in Canada as well.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by gricardo99 on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:12PM (#14547136)
That certainly changes the cost-of-living, but it's not really relevant to the point about exchange rates and price differences, since most people compare prices pre-sales tax. Sticker prices, in the US and Canada (and Europe?), don't typically include sales tax.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by ManFromUranus on Monday June 12, 2017 @05:08PM (#14541134)
To supplement the person you are replying to post, in Canada, the same goods and services are more expensive AND your money is worth 30% less than the US Dollar. So if you were able to move to the US and get a job that paid THE EXACT SAME SALARY, you would STILL be better off because good and services you consume would be cheaper AND you pay less overall tax.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by legolas2412 on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:33PM (#14540869)
As someone from India, I'm surprised people do this.

With 1 USD = 65 INR, we're used to converting with cost of living and Purchasing power in mind.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by eru on Monday June 12, 2017 @05:19PM (#14541203)
The confusion might come from the fact that the UK can be quite expensive. So prices look nominally the same in GBP as in USD---it's just that the US is often a lot cheaper.

Thus for the casual observer it look like the difference is in the exchange rate---not in the prices.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by inputcoffee on Monday June 12, 2017 @05:07PM (#14541123)
I always use the example of Japan. $1 = 109 Yen, so do people think Japan costs 1/100th of what the US does?

Japan is a good example because people have an idea that it is a rich, expensive country.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by GuiA on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:33PM (#14542204)
I don’t think anyone but the daftest people think that Japan costs 1/100th of what the US does.

Living in Japan with a Japanese lifestyle is not that expensive. I have many Japanese friends living in Tokyo for under $1.5-2k a month. They’re not living in luxury, but they quite enjoy their lives, travel every once in a while, etc. You won’t be doing that in SF (and Tokyo is a much more pleasant city than SF in more ways than one).

On the other hand, living an american lifestyle in Japan (big car, big house, eating lots of red meat, buying imported American goods, etc) is going to cost you a lot of money though.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by nandemo on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:39AM (#14543220)
The point that grandparent and ohhhwell are making is, nobody says "I came to Japan and now my salary is 100x my previous salary in nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 99% of your salary)". But for some reason people do say things like that when the currencies involved are USD/CAD/GBP/EUR. I guess it's just not as obviously "wrong".

Just normalize everything to a single currency; we can still talk about differences in cost of living. Sure, exchange rate fluctuations can be related to the cost of living, but it's not everything.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by bogomipz on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:25PM (#14540791)
>"I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary."

This is an honest question - is it worth living somewhere you "hate" for increased pay? Why not take less money and live in place that would make you happy?

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by stale2002 on Monday June 12, 2017 @05:35PM (#14541321)
Depends on the price. Everyone has one. (or at least SHOULD have one).

Here is an example. Would you accept 100 million dollars to work in Saudia Arabia for a year? I probably would. I'd do it for a year, and then retire.

People do lots of things where they are exchanging happiness now, for happiness in the future.

For him, it means that he can save up a whole bunch of money, and then retire 20 years earlier at the least.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by bogomipz on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:18PM (#14542159)
>"Depends on the price. Everyone has one. (or at least SHOULD have one)"

No, not everyone has a price for which they are willing to exchange their happiness for.

I also completely disagree that everyone "should" have a price they are willing to exchange their happiness for. It's strikes me as quite odd that you choose to pronounce these things(your opinions) as universal and absolute truths.

There are many people who work jobs that offer them happiness at the expense of lower pay. Artists, teachers, journalists, social service workers are all examples of this. I recently met some Americans and Britons who were working in tech in Berlin. Even though they could make a better salary back home they chose Berlin because the quality of life there makes them happier. So no, not "everybody" has a price.

>"Here is an example. Would you accept 100 million dollars to work in Saudia Arabia for a year?"

This is a total straw man. The OP actually stated that they were able to triple their salary by working in SV/SF. How is that at all comparable with being able to retire as one of the most wealthy people on the planet after 1 year? You are comparing a possible practical reality with a fantasy.

Also along with tripling one's salary by working in SV/SF comes a higher tax bracket and probably triple what you would pay in rent in the most expensive Canadian tech hub. It's not very realistic to think that you are going to retire 20 years earlier on just a SF/SV salary, not even close.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by stale2002 on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:00PM (#14542284)
"Artists, teachers, journalists, social service workers" Sure. And if someone offered any of those people 100 million dollars, to work at a job that they liked moderately less than their current job for a single year, it is a universal truth that they should do it (unless they already have a billion in the bank I guess).

It is not about trading happiness for money. It is about trading a small amount of happiness NOW for a large amount of happiness later or a large amount of ability to achieve your goals.

If you are a teacher/Journalist/artist who wants the world to be more educated, more informed, or more artistically enriched, you are universally better able to achieve those goals with 100 million dollars in the bank.

So yes. Everyone SHOULD have a price. Maybe that price is 100 million dollars. Maybe it is 10 thousand. But a price is a price.

But back to the actual question at hand. Yes, i do believe that tripling your salary could lead to you retiring 20 years earlier.

It is simple math, really. Even with the increase in taxes, you will have about double at least the total amount of take home pay. And if you have a ~40 year work life, but take home twice as much money after taxes, that means you only have to work ~20 years to make the same amount of after taxes income.

Call it 15 years to be more conservative. But the numbers are close.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by bogomipz on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:16PM (#14542327)
>"And if someone offered any of those people 100 million dollars, to work at a job that they liked moderately less than their current job for a single year,"

Are you just trolling then?

The "what if someone offered you 100 million dollars?" game is a game that children play. Your insistence on repeatedly interjecting this bit of childishness is just bizarre. The context of the discussion and the OPs comment is working as a salaried employee.

There was was never any question of a job "liked moderately less." The OP said quite unequivocally that they "hate" living where they live. Hate is a pretty strong emotion, it does not describe a state of being moderately less happy.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by linkregister on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:31PM (#14542193)
Rent, but not house price. Toronto and Vancouver meet or exceed SF Bay Area house prices. Rents are lower there, yes.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by uiri on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @12:11AM (#14542811)
Seriously? You're saying that condos in downtown San Francisco can be had for under $500k? You can most likely find a condo in downtown Toronto for that price. Housing prices in Toronto are nowhere near the SF Bay Area. Geography constrains West Coast cities in a way that simply doesn't apply to Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa. There is still plenty of farm land in the GTA waiting to be developed. The distance between Hamilton and Toronto is similar to the distance between San Francisco and San Jose. You can still find houses for under $500k in Hamilton.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by linkregister on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @02:48PM (#14547466)
Given a 90 minute drive (the time it takes to drive from San Jose at rush hour on a good day), one can find a house for $500k in Antioch or Brentwood. The markets are comparable.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by geodel on Monday June 12, 2017 @06:49PM (#14541762)
> Why not take less money and live in place that would make you happy?

At that point one starts hating low pay and need to move somewhere with high pay if possible.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by jonny_eh on Monday June 12, 2017 @11:11PM (#14542637)
Life, like engineering, is all about trade-offs.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by avaer on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:08PM (#14540627)
The last sentence here isn't self-consistent.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by nacho2sweet on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:13PM (#14540681)
Yeah who the fuck wants to live in Waterloo Ontario when you can live in California? Lmao. Real Canadian Winter, and crap summer.

Many of the devs worth their dime in Vancouver end up remote working when they get to the Sr. level. Get paid in USD, and for 25-30% more in a stronger currency. Works out to almost 60% more?! also if you aren't a city person you can then move to one of the gulf islands.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by r-s on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:23PM (#14540770)
No joke. I applied for several jobs in Vancouver and the best salary offer was 110k base (82k USD). Seattle actually seems to have a lower cost of living and salaries approx 2x as high.

Its very hard to attract workers when the salaries just cant compare.

Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by lacampbell on Monday June 12, 2017 @04:19PM (#14540737)
American companies routinely pay remote foreign workers at American rates? I find it a bit hard to believe.
Re:Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety by sergers on Monday June 12, 2017 @10:02PM (#14542454)
If they don't have an office in the remote country they do.

I know a few vancouverites who live in Vancouver, who are working for Texas based companies, no local office in the country

They are paid in USD.

When the cdn dollar tanked against usd after being on par, it was like a 30-40% raise for them in cdn just cause of the exchange rate