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Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by TomK32 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:21AM (#14495392)
Why did no one mention the Romans yet? They came up with the frigidarium where you could literally cool down with your friends and some private houses even had water running inside their walls to cool it down (or hot air in the colder months).

Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by Xylakant on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:54AM (#14495520)
> Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice.

AC is not only temperature control. Running water through the walls or evaporation cooling only work in moderately dry climates but will not help much in humid climates. Cooling the walls will just lead to condensation and wet walls. There's certainly a lot that can be done without AC, but humidity control is required in some regions of the world.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by ComputerGuru on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:02AM (#14495786)
The article does mention the Romans, though:

> The eccentric Roman emperor Elagabulus sent slaves to bring snow down from the mountains and pile it in his garden, where breezes would carry the cooler air inside.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by _pmf_ on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:25AM (#14495403)
> Temperature control in buildings is 100% architecture and technical add-ons like AC are a poor choice. Look at termites how they use architecture to cool their hives.

Clay for the win. Even using a very thin clay based upper layer does incredible things to the room climate.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:35AM (#14495921)
is Clay also for the win in hot, humid climates?
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by nf05papsjfVbc on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:38AM (#14495938)
Yes, it works fairly well. You need to have a high ceiling for it to be effective though. I don't know why that is so, however.
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by yxhuvud on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:35AM (#14496175)
I wonder why central cooling hasn't taken off like central heating has. It seems to me that the economy of scale would work really well with cold just as it does with heat.
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by VLM on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:23AM (#14496645)
Compressed liquid refrigerant is very expensive compared to cheap water for heating. Long pipes full of liquid would be very expensive to initially fill not to mention after leaks. And there would be leaks...

Historically most refrigerants have had "issues" when leaked either environmental or being toxic or otherwise it minimizes danger to keep as little as possible. Even if we could afford to use 1000x as much refrigerant with a central compressor station, it would be bad for the environment to use it that way.

You can move a huge amount of heat with water pressurized to merely 14 psi or so, but I have a puron aka R-410A conditioner at home and that dude runs near 400 psi on a hot day and its difficult to run miles of high pressure pipe.

I'm not sure bigger compressors are that much more efficient than smaller compressors, taking into account the environmental and economic expense of the pipes.

From an engineering standpoint its cheaper safer and less environmentally destructive to push kilowatts thru copper wire than push high pressure expensive refrigerant thru long high pressure pipes if all other things were equal which they mostly are.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by pinot on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:37PM (#14498596)
You do not have to distribute the compressor gasses- you just pump cold water/glycol around. Every factory everywhere does it this way for distributed cooling, as well as hospitals/colleges/corp campuses with central plants.

For a long while, Stanford had an underground reservoir of ice for even better cooling (freeze ice at night when electrical prices are low, melt off during the day) http://web.stanford.edu/dept/news/news/1999/april21/iceplant...

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by Ajedi32 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:26PM (#14498480)
Why would you need to use the refrigerant itself for heat transfer from end users? Couldn't you just use water for that; like they do for central heating? (E.g. Chill water using centralized AC, then pump the cold water through pipes to cool homes and businesses?)
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by SAI_Peregrinus on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:55PM (#14501244)
Why would you use long pipes of refrigerant? Move the air, not the refrigerant. Plenty of existing central heating systems do that (no radiators, just vents in each room). Systems like this already exist and work rather well.
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by blackguardx on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:16AM (#14496361)
In the US, centralized AC is the norm in the numerous suburban houses. Newer apartment buildings in cities have centralized AC and window units are usually only used in older buildings.
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by yxhuvud on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:41AM (#14496465)
You are speaking centralized as in having one central unit for the building, are you not? I am speaking about having a big company, usually city-run, making the cool in a huge plant and then pump it out (in insulated pipes) to the rest of the city/town.

The heat version of it is very common here in Sweden (for towns bigger than, say, 10k people) and it is a lot more efficient (and therefore, cheaper) than having heating units in the different buildings. We even have bigger data centers selling their spare heat from their cooling back to the heating systems.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by closeparen on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:04PM (#14498258)
Universities often have one or more chiller plants that cool multiple buildings on campus (also boiler plants).

Very large building-sized boiler and chiller plants served each half of my campus (probably less than a square mile in total). I'm not sure it would work at city scale.

Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by pinot on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:41PM (#14498636)
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by nerdshoe on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:22AM (#14496642)
Deep lake cooling is used in Toronto, Canada, though not widespread, and is offered by a private company. http://enwavetoronto.com/district_cooling_system.html
Re:The far-reaching effects of air conditioning by obstinate on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:39AM (#14496718)
I live in a building that does use central cooling. I'm not quite sure how it works, but I believe that they pump chilled water through our radiators. The radiators are more like air conditioner radiators than traditional cast iron radiators, and they have fans attached that can be controlled by the renter.