News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by zajd on Monday June 05, 2017 @08:14PM (#14493602)
I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by CharlesW on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:51PM (#14494338)
Safari supports Web Notifications: http://caniuse.com/#feat=notifications

Safari 11 supports WebRTC, Media Capture API, WebAssembly, WebCrypto API, drag-and-drop, and other interesting new features. If a crippled browser is their goal, they're doing quite an awful job of it.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by rictic on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:58PM (#14494370)
http://caniuse.com/#feat=push-api is the interesting notifications API, which allows notifying a user (with their permission) even when the app isn't open. Neither API is supported on iOS Safari, and desktop Safari only supports notifications while the app is open.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by shuckles on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:45PM (#14494588)
“push notifications can reach your users regardless of whether your website or Safari is open“

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Ne...

Re:JSC loves ES6 by untog on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:24AM (#14494938)
Not on iOS, and not the web standard everyone else uses.

If the only possible market is desktop Safari users then it's usually a rounding error not worth the development time.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by bwhitty on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:57PM (#14494635)
"Registration requires an Apple developer license."

Hmm, not the open web I'm familiar with.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by kabes on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:38AM (#14497092)
That's a way for Apple to avoid abuse. Same thing like google requiring you to put an extension in the chrome store to enable screen capture.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by solidr53 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @11:22AM (#14497914)
One does not have to pay to publish a chrome extension.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by kabes on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:44PM (#14501155)
Yes, you do have to pay to publish chrome web store. Only $5 though: https://developer.chrome.com/webstore/publish
Re:JSC loves ES6 by whacker on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:33PM (#14499155)
Not having to pay does not make it 'open' either, but I see your point.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by CharlesW on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:06PM (#14494415)
> Neither API is supported on iOS Safari, and desktop Safari only supports notifications while the app is open.

Ah, thank you for explaining the difference.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by EGreg on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:45AM (#14494795)
Safari ON MAC supports it.

I emailed the guy in charge of Safari on iOS and he said they have no plans to implement web push notifications on iOS!

Re:JSC loves ES6 by pfooti on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:07AM (#14496059)
The irony is that the only apps I could install on my iPhone 1 were javascript-powered html fragments. They launched with no app store or 3rd party binaries at all, and everything was to be done via js.

Now when we are super close to really supporting progressive web apps, apple is holding back (potentially to protect that golden calf of an app store).

Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:40PM (#14494297)
I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications.

I’m pretty sure you'd be wrong. Apple announced that it's paid over $70 billion to app developers since the App Store became a thing in 2008 at today's WWDC keynote. This is the 30% Apple pays developers; so we're talking about $233 billion in gross transactions in less than 10 years.

Apple is likely to be the first trillion dollar valuation company; I seriously doubt it's worried about web apps encroaching upon a fairly small part of it's revenue: http://fortune.com/2017/03/31/apple-trillion-dollar-company/

Re:JSC loves ES6 by untog on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:57PM (#14494366)
I think that's a shortsighted way to look at it. The iPhone is as successful as it is because of the perception of exclusivity - the best, newest apps will always be on iPhone first. Whether they are free or cost $100 each doesn't really matter that much - it still means Apple is the premier mobile device bar none.

If they enabled more progressive webapp features, we'd start to see a lot more cross platform webapps. That would not be in Apple's interest.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:52PM (#14503127)
Apple sure is putting in a lot of effort into ES5 performance for a platform that they’re supposedly crippling, not to mention smoking Chrome and Firefox in the process: https://webkit.org/blog/7536/jsc-loves-es6/
Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:13PM (#14502984)
More proof that Apple isn’t crippling Safari--they announced full Web Assembly support today: https://webkit.org/blog/7691/webassembly/
Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:44AM (#14495035)
The iPhone is as successful as it is because of the perception of exclusivity - the best, newest apps will always be on iPhone first.

That argument might have worked in back in the day when the iPhone was only available on AT&T but not in a world where the iPhone is available to more people than it ever has been before.

The iPhone is perhaps the single most successful product ever, with over 1 billion sold: http://www.asymco.com/2016/07/28/most-popular-product-of-all...

The total marketshare of Android is around 2 billion, but that's the total of Samsung, Motorola, HTC, LG, etc. None of them have individually sold a billion Android phones themselves.

If they enabled more progressive webapp features, we'd start to see a lot more cross platform webapps. That would not be in Apple's interest.

Do you think Apple cares more about selling a $700 iPhone or a 99¢ app? They have over a million native apps for iOS; what keeps that ecosystem strong is how Apple is able to innovate each year on new features for the iPhone, iPad and iOS, not by restricting what web apps can do.

The most compelling features are things web apps aren't very good at anyway. I seriously doubt Tim Cook is losing sleep worrying about Service Workers and the like.

People said the same thing about WebRTC and how it would compete with FaceTime. And now we have WebRTC in the new versions of macOS and iOS, so it's time to create reasons why other web features aren't there.

Web apps have made a lot of progress but for the average user in a developed country, the user experience pales in comparison to native apps.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by omnimus on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:06AM (#14495343)
They dont want to deal with potentional problems (like battery drain) of the web platform.

They can ignore it exactly because of their appstore and aura of exellence.

But in real world i know so many people who dont have single app on iphone. They cant even imagine what simple link could give them. This could go very wrong way for apple. Imagine their excelent app devs start to make webap version of their apps. Many of the beatifuly designed ones could work very easily on web platform. Suddenly it becomes trend and iphone app exclusivity is gone. Plus apple looses control over the market.

I for one would like to be able to opt in for notifs for events of certain clubs, galleries etc. It feels like sms for your fans. Much faster than newsletter much less busy than social networks.

Re:JSC loves ES6 by RodericDay on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:48PM (#14502858)
I'm one of those people. I don't like mucking around in the app-store, but I'd save a shortcut.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:34AM (#14494989)
I got my numbers mixed up--Apple pays developers 70%, so the total revenue is "only" $100 billion and not $233 billion.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @07:22PM (#14510664)
Here's a link to a comment from a WebKit engineer responding to the notion that Apple deliberately omits features from Safari. Short answer--they don't: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14509746
Re:JSC loves ES6 by imron on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:05PM (#14494405)
Apple pays developers 70% (and keeps 30% for itself), which would be $100 billion in gross transactions.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by alwillis on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:32AM (#14494983)
That's correct; I got that reversed.
Re:JSC loves ES6 by reaperhulk on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:04PM (#14494396)
Apple pays devs 70% (and more on long-lived app subscriptions now). So that's $100B, not $233B.