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Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by crdoconnor on Sunday May 28, 2017 @12:30PM (#14435017)
>The Hartz IV reforms that added flexibility for companies

The Hartz reforms suppressed wages and made the average German poorer:

https://ideas.repec.org/a/wej/wldecn/557.html

Germany's industrial success was evident years before they went into effect.

Hartz is like trickle down economics and a lower minimum wage: the wealthy have good reason to love it and the wealthy will make up spurious reasons why you should love it too - which many people will believe.

>A highly educated workforce

China achieved a similar measure of manufacturing success with an education system that was a great deal worse while the UK has an equally good education system and did not achieve anything like Germany's manufacturing prowess.

The difference in the British and German education system probably has more to do with the industrial pressures than it does the nature of the education systems themselves. If the UK followed a similar export-driven path, they would probably have more apprenticeships and fewer people going to Uni to study English lit.

So no, I don't think it's that.

>Inflation-adjusted wages have actually declined in the last ten years making german products even cheaper for other countries. That' terrible for everyone.

Not everyone. German industrialists (like the guy who wrote this article) love lower wages.

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by JanSt on Sunday May 28, 2017 @12:41PM (#14435085)
> All the Hartz reforms did was suppress wages and make the average German poorer.

That's exactly what I'm saying. (edit: on the wages and poorer part; it's of course _NOT_ everything they did)

> Germany's industrial success was evident years before they went into effect.

> Hartz is like trickle down economics and a lower minimum wage: the wealthy have good reason to love it and the wealthy will make up spurious reasons why you should love it too - which many people will believe.

Without those reforms Germany would be part of the European crisis. It was called "the sick man of Europe" not long ago, not without a reason.

> China achieved a similar measure of manufacturing success with an education system that was a great deal worse

They did mostly mass production by hand while german factories are mostly automated and people there do a lot of higher-value work that requires much more knowledge than the chinese kind of manufacturing.

> while the UK has an equally good education system and did not achieve anything like Germany's manufacturing prowess.

The UK is and has been much more focused on finance. The brightest will join a bank there, while in Germany they will engineer new things. Germany has 2-3x the number of patents per year compared to the UK

> Not everyone. German industrialists (like the guy who wrote this article) love lower wages.

Sure, everyone is wrong. Nearly everyone would be right.

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by crdoconnor on Sunday May 28, 2017 @03:38PM (#14435752)
"Without those reforms Germany would be part of the European crisis. It was called "the sick man of Europe" not long ago, not without a reason."

It would have been fine. Germany was labeled the sick man of Europe in the late 90s. It wasn't Hartz that gave it an economic boost, it was joining the Eurozone.

Plenty of other countries have had similar reforms and not experienced any beneficial stimulus (although that doesn't stop European elites trying to ram a pseudo-Hartz down everybody's throats).

"They did mostly mass production by hand while german factories are mostly automated and people there do a lot of higher-value work that requires much more knowledge than the chinese kind of manufacturing."

This is simply an artefact of the Chinese being poorer while they first enacted this policy. They moved up the value chain and are now close to the top - they're building commercial airliners and designing and building phones every bit as good as an iPhone.

In spite of that this education system is still pretty poor and China has not engaged in any reforms similar to Hartz.

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by RobertoG on Sunday May 28, 2017 @12:39PM (#14435071)
"Not everyone. German industrialists (like the guy who wrote this article) love lower wages."

That's one of the keys for understanding what is going on. It's surprising how little we heard it.

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by ChefDenominator on Sunday May 28, 2017 @01:17PM (#14435236)
Since you used the phrase "trickle down economics" as if it were a formal economic theory, I discount every thing you stated because you don't understand the phrases you are using.
Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by dang on Sunday May 28, 2017 @03:18PM (#14435686)
This sort of personal attack will get your account banned on HN, so please don't do it again. Ditto for uncivil swipes like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14435509.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by ChefDenominator on Sunday May 28, 2017 @04:59PM (#14436064)
Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by dang on Sunday May 28, 2017 @08:09PM (#14436687)
We certainly try to. But you'd probably get farther with us if you worked on your own stuff first.
Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by ChefDenominator on Monday May 29, 2017 @12:11AM (#14437368)
Two posts in violation of a policy regularly broken makes it so if I complain about this bad behavior someone else is using against me, such complaints are not relevant, but I may be banned from your website.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by dang on Monday May 29, 2017 @08:33AM (#14438775)
That is like complaining when you get a speeding ticket because you saw other people speeding and didn't see them get a ticket.
Re:Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing ... by ChefDenominator on Monday May 29, 2017 @02:52PM (#14440706)
These types of selective moderation make HN seem like the typical hive-mind that shouts down and uses abusive moderative tactics to prevent any diversity of opinion from sticking around.

Enjoy your kingdom.