What was Syria like before the war

Re:What was Syria like before the war by matt4077 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @04:37AM (#14408432)

Stuff like this doesn't happen for some pipeline. In this case, the theory has the following problems:

- The supposed Qatar->Europe would have to cross Saudi Arabia, which is a much larger obstacle to any pipeline project.

- Same for Turkey

- Dependence on Russian gas isn't so much a "European" problem, as a Eastern-European problem, from Germany to Greece. These are countries that aren't really known for 007-style false flag operations in the middle east

- There doesn't seem to be a pipeline being build anywhere near Syria. This outcome wasn't that surprising, considering almost every other conflict in the region also turned into a decades-long quagmire

- The further destabilisation of the middle east creates risks that dominate any supposed gains from lower energy dependence: the migrant crisis was among the worst in the European Union's history, at least in terms of its potential to unravel the union. The power vacuum that was created gave rise to ISIS, which the west will have to grapple with for decades in some form or other

- The supposed perpetrators in the west are democratically elected politicians, not actually psychopaths trying to amass natural resources.

- Even if they were so inclined, they'd have a really hard time profiting from it because

   (a) elected politicians think in much shorter timeframes
       than what would be required for this pipeline 
       to start making money, 

   (b) they would never be able to actually do anything 
       with any money they made, being constantly in the
       public eye even after their terms are up, 

   (c) they'd be dead by then anyway, 

   (d) most politicians have actually proven that 
       they have below-average interest in monetary 
       riches compared to public admiration, and 

   (e) they could never get that, either, because 
       they'd be prosecuted and ostracised if it 
       ever came to light.

It's really very simple: Assad is and always was a brutal asshole. At some point, hatred of him turned violent, and everything escalated. There are two dozen different foreign and domestic powers with a stake in the outcome, and each of them funds this group or that, securing a continuing source of violence, just add angry young men.

Some of the opposition may have democratic ideas, some may be communists, or fascists, or islamists, or hairdressers. There's no easy way to label the opposition because Assad really managed to get a lot of people rather angry, for all sorts of different reasons (but mostly for killing people other people liked)

As another point: if you take a really good look at Iran, you'll find they are a lot less bad than one might think. They are without any doubt the second-best democracy in the region–behind Israel, but quite certainly ahead of today's Turkey. And while that democracy is incredibly flawed, Iran is so much better than Saudi Arabia, it isn't even funny. With the added knowledge that all the islamic terror against the west since 2001 has been Sunni, it's really strange to see who's an ally and who is in line to get bombed when the US President next has a bad day.

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Re:What was Syria like before the war by cat199 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @02:25PM (#14412256)

You seem to be emphasizing that european energy 'independence' is the only reason for the pipeline without noting as a result, it also shifts significant funding bases for all the producing nations involved and therefore also shifts the geopolitical balance of power viz-a-vis state finance, and that the orientation of major producing nations has direct bearing on the global balance of power / energy / finance. See also: BRICS

You also presume that the short-term interests of politicians is not heavily tied to the long term interests of their major constituents.. See also: think tanks

As for brutality: Try to create a 'peaceful and inclusive' society when a significant enough minority to overthrow a weaker regime is always present and agitating to do so (e.g. jihadi sympathizers).. it might be more difficult than you imagine, which is not to say that conflict never exacerbates extreme positions. You might find that some normal people would prefer a harsh regieme keeping those people out than a week democracy which they expect will likely fail (see also: egypt)

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Re:What was Syria like before the war by mythrwy on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @08:40PM (#14414562)

"It's really very simple: Assad is and always was a brutal asshole. At some point, hatred of him turned violent, and everything escalated."

Nothing is simple in that area of the world.

There are a lot of forces at play. One of which is upset Syrian citizens. Another of which are interested foreign powers.

[ Parent | on HN ]