News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by y4mi on Monday May 22, 2017 @04:05PM (#14396508)
Some people don't spy on their customers and don't have these kinds of information available for analyses

They're admittedly few though and their moral high ground is debatable considering that there are self hosted FOSS alternatives around nowadays

Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by beefsack on Monday May 22, 2017 @08:21PM (#14397882)
I completely understand where you're coming from, but the User-Agent string is included in regular HTTP requests and you don't need to resort to overbearing client-side analytics to aggregate it; it's right there in the access logs on the server.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by HalfwayToDice on Monday May 22, 2017 @04:10PM (#14396546)
Calling aggregate anonymous analytics "spying on your customers" is absurd nonsense.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by astrodust on Monday May 22, 2017 @06:41PM (#14397461)
It's "spying" when you're gathering data they didn't consent to give, like mining through their contacts, scanning running processes or uploading unrelated content from their computer. The browser User-Agent string is hardly classified information.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by Pherdnut on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @01:12AM (#14398949)
Yeah, this is more like the used car dealership noticing that a lot of their clientele drives Toyotas. SPIES!
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by TeMPOraL on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:16AM (#14399913)
Analytics on the web are neither aggregate nor anonymous.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by jasonkostempski on Monday May 22, 2017 @04:50PM (#14396830)
Declaring "absurd nonsense" isn't an argument.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by obstacle1 on Monday May 22, 2017 @05:17PM (#14397002)
In this case, the absurdity and nonsensical character of the 'spying' claim is fairly self-evident.

When a client voluntarily makes a request to a server, it presents a bunch of information for the server to see and consume. This information is not meant to be kept secret from the server. Among such pieces of information can be some about the characteristics of the user agent, including OS. It is disingenuous at best to call collecting such voluntarily-presented and clearly-transmitted data as "spying" on a user.

A basic requirement for spying is for a collecting party to be obtaining information that can be reasonably considered confidential or restricted. Details about the system from which you send a request are by definition of the protocol not confidential or restricted to the recipient of your request. It is not reasonable to expect a server to not look at or use information you present to it. Therefore, it isn't "spying" for the recipient to consume the information. The information might be used in ways some people(e.g., OP) don't like, but that does not make obtaining the information "spying".

Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by jasonkostempski on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @11:45AM (#14410859)
I only posted this because it was the second time that day I saw "absurd nonsense" used as a comment with no additional content. It annoyed me enough the first time that it stuck out like a sore thumb the second time, then I noticed it was the same user and it was their last 2 comments.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by cortesoft on Monday May 22, 2017 @05:43PM (#14397170)
You don't need an argument against absurd nonsense.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by thaumasiotes on Monday May 22, 2017 @08:01PM (#14397812)
Better men than you have been beaten by absurd nonsense that shouldn't have needed to be argued against. ;)
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by SimbaOnSteroids on Monday May 22, 2017 @08:12PM (#14397854)
I recall a woman who recently had this experience as well.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by revelation on Monday May 22, 2017 @05:04PM (#14396933)
Just like those anonymous taxi fare statistics, no one ever extracted meaning from those..
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by dismantlethesun on Monday May 22, 2017 @05:09PM (#14396966)
The whole point is to extract meaning from analysis but not spy on personal information. Knowing which clients support what kind of SSL isn't personal, it is part of the request transaction.
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by johncolanduoni on Monday May 22, 2017 @04:35PM (#14396711)
Mere server-side logging can pick out something like this via User-Agent. Is it spying to count the number of times a request with "Windows NT 5.1" is sent to your server?
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by jlgaddis on Monday May 22, 2017 @07:19PM (#14397636)
Mere server-side logging can include the negotiated encryption parameters (but doesn't by default, IIRC).
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by johncolanduoni on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @01:20AM (#14398970)
Yes, of the connection the server is party to. It's bad security to record them, but how is it spying?
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by jjawssd on Monday May 22, 2017 @09:20PM (#14398125)
Are you implying that analyzing server logs to gather aggregate user agent statistics is "spying on [your] customers?"

Because that is untrue.

Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by matt4077 on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:12AM (#14399901)
Aside from my personal opinion (which largely agrees with you), there are jurisdictions where a specific IP address is considered enough to make it (and the rest of the data) personal information, requiring a justification, information (or even consent), and other processes to protect privacy.

That's why Google Analytics has an option to remove the last three digits of an IP.

Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by mikegerwitz on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @09:12AM (#14400840)
The important part is whether the data are anonymous.

You might be interested in the EFF's Best Practices for Online Service Providers:

https://www.eff.org/wp/osp

Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by lostboys67 on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @06:18AM (#14400116)
Well you can use qualsys labs tool to check your ssl and all the main search engines have said they will start flagging sites that use unsafe HTTPS or show the warning page before letting you proceed
Re:HTTPS on Stack Overflow: The End of a Long Road by jameskegel on Monday May 22, 2017 @09:43PM (#14398215)
Out of all the grey comments, this one does not deserve to be greyed out.