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Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Amezarak on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:24AM (#14382069)
Unless you're buying a relatively new book, book buying on Amazon is an incredibly painful experience. I've given up almost altogether. There are a number of outright fakes, but the main problem is the massive number of really crappy print-on-demand OCR/scanned books.

The only way I do continue to buy books on Amazon if they're sold by Amazon and fulfilled by Amazon, which it sounds like that will generally be less findable. It simply isn't worth the trouble. I have no sympathy for the publishers - I have no problem at all buying used books - but there is more to the story.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by brudgers on Saturday May 20, 2017 @09:30AM (#14382272)
A few years ago, I started losing trust in Amazon as what was once a straight forward transaction began to look more and more like an algorithmic semi-scam. I would look for some item and the featured results would be 20% or more than the same item in some duplicated form.

For many years Amazon's business model was to generate revenue off of straight forward sales transactions. Today it has shifted to rents and extractions. Prime is perhaps a good first example. Using it complicates transactions and Amazon can arbitrage the eligibility and price of items to extract additional revenues on the fly.

However, textbooks are the prime of example of Amazon's new more extractive business practices. It's not just that Amazon wholeheartedly adopted the text book industry's obscene pricing models rather than disrupting them. Nor is it just that Amazon has extended the obscene pricing to rent out ebook versions of textbooks. No, the best expression of Amazon's newly found extractive business practices is in the availability and pricing of used older editions of textbooks on its platform. In the old days, Amazon was a steady source for fairly inexpensive obsolescent editions of current textbooks. Once Amazon seriously entered the textbook business, that seems to have changed and bargains available with deliberate search have disappeared.

There really was a change of mindset with Amazon Prime. It was a manifestation of a business cultural value that all customers are not equal as individuals. Maybe it is possible to position an ecommerce site as an upscale brand while still selling Schenzhen's spinners and iPhone cases and unlisted electronics of dubious safety for $0.01.

As I've lost trust in Amazon, I've started using Ebay for online purchases. Ebay is orders of magnitude more transparent. Transparency is a good way to create trust. It helps that Ebay's business model is not grossly misaligned with my wallet. It helps that the marker of trust is between buyer and seller rather than stars based on customer reviews. A seller with 10,000 transactions and 99% positive rating is a better indicator of an item's quality than 4 stars based on twenty reviews.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by barking on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:09AM (#14382426)
How is ebay better? The only counterfeit item I have bought on either site was a dell laptop charger on ebay a few years ago. It used to overheat and stopped working after only a few weeks use. Another time a product was never shipped and I had to go through the paypal dispute resolution process which worked fine if a little slowly. I'd have thought ebay would suffer from the same problems as amazon with counterfeit products and fake reviews and then it also has the whole shill bids problem. I moved over to amazon for almost all my online shopping and so far have not had a problem though I appreciate that may just be luck on my part.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by res0nat0r on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:23AM (#14382492)
I'm not sure how / what these folks who keep apparently getting scammed are buying, but I have ~200 books purchased in my history with 3/4 of them most likely used, and none have been fakes.

I constantly buy / add to my wishlist older hardcover books I'm interested in reading and will come back and check when the used price is low and buy either Like New / Very Good / Good and have been satisfied with the results. Nothing like getting a 800+ page hardcover book with barely any use delivered to your door for 6-10$.

If one is worried about quality don't by anything used that is less than Very Good IMO.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by brudgers on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:46AM (#14382601)
I don't disagree that a person can buy shoddy goods on either site. The difference for me is that as a marketplace, Ebay is more transparent. The article points out a specific instance of Amazon's opacity where the buyer has no information about the actual seller.

Maybe the merchant is Amazon itself and hence a fairly reliable seller. Maybe the merchant is some other less reliable seller. Maybe the the merchant has the item in stock. Maybe it does not. Maybe the price shown is in the buyer's interest. Maybe it is not the same as someone else might see.

The difference for me, is that in general Ebay has structured its business so as to create little incentive for manipulating individual transactions in an extractive way. As a marketplace, Ebay tends to provide consistent and reliable information to buyers (as well as sellers) regarding price and the transaction history of the counter party.

Now all this is with the caveat that I generally use Ebay as a replacement for Amazon and therefore am not heavily invested in the auction process. Usually the only time a enter an Ebay auction over buy-it-now is when the auction is ending soon and there's not much bid activity and the item is on the long tail...I don't use usually use Ebay to buy high demand or high ticket items via auction.

But again, for me it is that I find Amazon's purchase process is often untrustworthy. Essentially, Amazon's search is broken when measured against my economic interests (and great when measured against Amazon's). In short, Amazon has become an adversarial marketplace where my adversary is the house. Ebay's auctions are adversarial, but I'm not up against the platform and the economics of the transaction for me do not depend on how the platform leaks information...and there are few incentives for Ebay to evolve in that way and many incentives for Amazon to do so.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Spooky23 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:20AM (#14382757)
I was with you until eBay! Unless something dramatically changed, eBay invented the shitty reseller business model when it began catering to power sellers and ignoring the multitude of scams in the market.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by brudgers on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:35AM (#14382845)
Ebay has evolved during the same time periods that Amazon has evolved, though my observation is that in the opposite direction toward increasing trust via transparency in the market. On Ebay, increased transparency is aligned with the common interest of trustworthy power sellers. Amazon has one power seller and increased opacity is in its interests.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by leephillips on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:49AM (#14382142)
I don't doubt that this is your experience. Personally, I've benefited greatly from buying used books from third parties on Amazon. Unusual books that are long out of print, useful for my research, for $5 shipped? It's great. And so far, they've all been in near-perfect condition - usually books sold by libraries that have never or rarely been checked out.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Amezarak on Saturday May 20, 2017 @09:12AM (#14382208)
I have no problem with the quality of used books, when they are what they say they are. I buy anything old or unusual on AbeBooks for the most part, which apparently is part? owned by Amazon. There are some POD results, but they seem to be mostly correctly labeled and to not flood the marketplace nearly as much. I own a lot of books that were printed in the 1800s but still in great shape.

This phenomenon is definitely most prominent in the market we're talking about (though I've also seen it with much newer books), so to take an example, consider Carlyle's History of Frederick the Great.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Da...

The first print copy in my search results is titled "History Of Friedrich II. of Prussia - Frederick The Great-Complete Table of Contents: 22 Volumes". This is literally a print-on-demand copy of the table of contents. The first reviewer also notes that it's "hard to read." It also costs $10. The next print edition is also a POD of the table of contents. The next is a print edition of the "first volume" (what the first volume actually consists of is not mentioned; the work was published in different editions with different volume counts) by Forgotten Books, which is a relatively OK POD publisher. (I would buy it if truly desperate, but not normally.)

Continuing to go through this search, I can't confidently find a single good copy of any volume. I think maybe the "Elibron Classics" copy of Volume X is good. Some of the POD are better than others. Some of them are clear scams - for example, the "Works of Thomas Carlyle" for $14.40 that claims to be his complete works...in 336 pages. (Carlyle's actual complete works would fill quite a bit more space.) I think the $1500 one on page 2 might be good, but there's no picture.

It's not that good, cheap copies of the book don't exist. I recently bought a full set of an 1900 edition for $80, which was still higher than I liked, but finding full used sets can be difficult. Here's tons of copies of "real" volumes: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Carlyle&so...

This is an especially egregious example, since I don't think the book has been reputably printed since 1969 and it's in the public domain; for most books the bad stuff is merely interleaved, instead of being almost all you can find.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by leephillips on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:49AM (#14382612)
That sounds frustrating. But thanks for the reminder about Abe's.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by arkades on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:40AM (#14382875)
Didn't Amazon acquire Abe's like 10 years back?
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by beastcoast on Saturday May 20, 2017 @12:10PM (#14383032)
yes, they were acquired in 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AbeBooks
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by joemi on Saturday May 20, 2017 @12:41PM (#14383167)
I'm not saying this accounts for the entirety of the crappy print-on-demand issue you're seeing, but it might account for some: a lot of big publishers make their backstock be POD if it's old enough.

For instance, at the bookstore I work at, when we order older Penguin Classics books directly from Penguin Random House, there's at least a 50% chance that we're going to get crappier POD copies from them, the publisher. We list our store's inventory on Amazon, and there have been a few times when a customer returned such books to us, angry that we sent them a POD copy, even after I explained they're actually the copies the publisher sent.

That said, we sometimes order books off Amazon for a customer when they're from a publisher we're not planning on placing an order with anytime soon, and it's downright appalling how many sellers send beat up used books as "new" books, or send falling-apart books as "used" books. Can't say we've seen a lot of POD books come in that way, unless they're from tiny publishers who do most/all of their books that way.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by DennisP on Saturday May 20, 2017 @08:41AM (#14382115)
You must be in a different market niche than me. I buy a lot of books and I've had no issues at all, even from third-party sellers of old books.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by x0x0 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @04:49PM (#14384284)
I haven't had bad experiences with books on amazon, but amazon sold me a charger with a fake Intertek mark (Intertek is an UL competitor). When I told amazon their response was to refund the purchase (good), but continue selling the charger (um, are you fucking kidding me?)

product: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013US9FFY

Intertek's statement: http://www.intertek.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=34359...

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by yellowapple on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:52PM (#14385631)
Shameless plug for the Friends of Washoe County Library, to which I have a personal connection and can attest to their books being 100% real (and cheap!). Selection probably ain't great (it relies on book donations, and it only includes the books with high estimated value; the cheaper books are sold in-person by the bag), but it's certainly a start.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Semaphor on Saturday May 20, 2017 @02:37PM (#14383667)
I honestly don't understand how Amazon is still a thing in the US. At least hn and Reddit discussions make it seem like there are a lot of fake products being sold. Is it extremely overblown?

In Germany I've never had this problem and never heard of others having it.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by ericd on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:39PM (#14383976)
I guess this goes to show how unrepresentative online commentary can be, and how easily unrepresentative info can distort our mental model of the world.

Far from "not still being a thing", Amazon is absolutely massive in the US, and usage continues to grow at a fast clip. I've never had a problem with fake goods, and I've never met anyone in person who has. Then again, I buy primarily from Amazon or the manufacturer selling on Amazon. It might be because the UI pushes third party sellers.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by spullara on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:43PM (#14383989)
It is likely the same people in every thread complaining about the issues they find in some niche book market most people don't care about. They are likely telling the truth but it also probably doesn't affect that many people.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Amezarak on Saturday May 20, 2017 @05:44PM (#14384512)
I would agree that the problem decreases with the popularity and recency of the book. If you're talking about a newly published bestseller, which is what I imagine most people buy, your chances of running across a fake are pretty small in my experience.

I would be afraid that this could change that, though - especially when e-book editions are released concurrently, it takes only a modicum of effort for a scammer to pirate the book and produce a realistic looking fake. (The advantage here, I suppose, is at least the presence of an official e-book means a professionally edited fake, rather than what you tend to see for out-of-print/old books.) Part of what makes that experience so much smoother is generally speaking, right now, if you go search for a new and/or very popular book, you'll be buying from the publisher or from Amazon.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by billpollock on Saturday May 20, 2017 @06:25PM (#14384675)
How would you know that you didn't receive a counterfeit​?
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by spullara on Monday May 22, 2017 @12:25PM (#14394857)
If I can't tell the difference, does it matter to me?
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by Spooky23 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @11:21AM (#14382759)
Personally, I've transitioned to the library and local bookstore model for my book purchases.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by wheelerwj on Saturday May 20, 2017 @09:34AM (#14382292)
i wish there was a setting for this. i really don't like the third party system on amazon.