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Re:Let employees work from home by bitL on Friday May 19, 2017 @11:26AM (#14376579)
The crab mentality here is really appalling :-(

I work remotely for 6+ years; during that time I created some unique algorithms, traveled around the world, met diverse types of people giving me unexpected inspirations from which business benefited tremendously (unique stuff nobody else has). I have the big 4 companies trying to contact me all the time if I wouldn't want to work for them, however seeing inside e.g. crammed offices of Google in Zurich with monitor next to monitor, makes it very unappealing.

Remote work requires focus and discipline. Focus is way easier than in an open office, discipline is more difficult. I still remember finishing some server part and tests while laying on a beach in Barcelona using their public Wi-Fi, getting tanned, and whenever I felt like, dipped into the sea - it was super energizing and motivating to continue working. Also viewing sunset above the place of refuge on the Hawaiian Big Island from a rented cottage, while sipping a cocktail and working on some advanced algorithm was superbly motivating. Just because some managers need to control everyone around and enforce the same misery on their subordinates doesn't mean there aren't better ways to work. It's actually stupid not to give people WFH and make them miserable commuting (some people spend up to 6 hours/day in the traffic). The technology is there, but the perceived lack of control and insecurity of power structures must spoil it for everyone, "'cause everybody is doing it in the office and it can't be done other way well". Phew

Re:Let employees work from home by dsacco on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:00PM (#14379320)
> Remote work requires focus and discipline. Focus is way easier than in an open office, discipline is more difficult.

For you. But not everyone works like that.

Here is a scenario for you: you're a manager at a company that does not have a remote culture in place. You have ten employees on your team. Two of them want to work remotely. You let them.

I'm interested in hearing how you would resolve these issues:

1. The remote employees now feel left out because even though on paper they are video conferenced in to all team meetings, important insights or decisions are happening in organic social discussions for which it is awkward or simply not worth it to start a video chat? What happens when everyone in the same room gets involved in a conversation that was started by two of the in-office employees talking about a weekend project, and they decide to port a discovery to their current software?

2. Some of the in-office employees start to find it cumbersome and annoying to communicate with the remote employees. They hate video conference software. They're reluctant to reach out to the remote employees because they know they have to set up a video call. Video conferences become prone to connection issues. Conversations that would normally be a five or ten minute check in with your peer in the same room become 30 or 40 minute asynchronous conversations over Slack.

3. Some of the in-office or remote employees encounter a lot of friction in communication, because they don't really know how to interpret tone over Slack. Video conferencing remains a pain in the ass, and some people simply don't want to do it.

I work remotely. I like it a lot. But I think your characterization of many of the comments here as a "crab mentality" is unfair. Not everyone wants to work remotely on a beach and not everyone focuses well or has the same discipline like you. Far more importantly, companies that don't already have remote cultures have employees that don't really want to work with remote employees for both rational and irrational reasons. It is a complex business problem to implement a functional remote culture for all involved.

Re:Let employees work from home by ntsplnkv2 on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:21PM (#14379447)
1. What if I happen to go to the bathroom in office and miss that same conversation? Or go to lunch and miss a conversation? Or do literally anything else and miss a conversation? Let's ban lunch out of office? Let's ban walking out of your cube?

2. Some of in-office employees find it cumbersome and annoying to sit next to loud and obnoxious coworkers. They find they can not get any work done around them. Why should we cater to some employees and not others?

3. Video conferencing is not a pain in the ass. At my job, it's a simple as "create skype meeting" on outlook. Everyone clicks link, done. Or if it's more adhoc-open chat, call, share screen. Done.

I've yet to see a good reason why good employees can not work from home, other than, your company is just poorly managed and can't handle it.

Re:Let employees work from home by noobhacker on Friday May 19, 2017 @02:33PM (#14378249)
How do you keep learning without much serendipitous interactions with people in your field? This is the biggest reason that makes me hesitate to try out WFH.
Re:Let employees work from home by douche on Friday May 19, 2017 @03:12PM (#14378566)
The same way I keep learning now: reading books, reading my rss feed, newsletters, Hackernews, etc, etc.

There's not much serendipity in any office I've ever worked in; I've always had to do the legwork myself.

Re:Let employees work from home by bitL on Friday May 19, 2017 @02:37PM (#14378266)
edX, Coursera, Udacity, Udemy, online M.S./MBA degrees, making speeches at universities or local tech gatherings, throwing parties at home to relax and meet people of different backgrounds/age etc.

Basically you decide to make a speech on some topic, e.g. this month I talk about how to make a compiler easily, then you work on it & learn what is necessary and in the end present it. Next month you decide to do Paxos vs RAFT on transacted clusters, then you study and prepare. Next month it's about using GANs to make new, sci-fi looking furniture, so you learn and present. Then you throw in perpendicular stuff like how to retouch beauty photoshoots properly, mix deep house as a DJ or compose trance quickly in Ableton, just not to get stuck in programming only. And so on.

Re:Let employees work from home by korzun on Friday May 19, 2017 @12:37PM (#14377267)
You are an exception. I was a huge advocate for working from home because I would get things done and end up saving two hours of commute.

Your perception of this approach changes relatively quickly in a managerial role.

If you are shaving 1-2 hours off your commute, then the overall output should be in line with whatever it was in the office. I probably met two other engineers that kept that in check.

Re:Let employees work from home by bitL on Friday May 19, 2017 @12:46PM (#14377352)
It's not for everyone. You can often see middle-aged men escaping their homes and working long hours because they feel miserable around their wives; for them office is the only "safe space" they have. But for self-motivated high-performing communicative people WFH might be a much better arrangement. They might have a different problem - not knowing when to stop and risking a severe burnout which would be limited by office hours.
Re:Let employees work from home by dade_ on Friday May 19, 2017 @12:57PM (#14377463)
I have seen this too, but it turns out they also hide from their wife at the bar afterward.
Re:Let employees work from home by msmm on Friday May 19, 2017 @06:51PM (#14379919)
Those people ruin it for everyone. They could rent their own office to escape their wives, but are likely not paid enough to really escape. Modern office slaves.
Re:Let employees work from home by Arizhel on Monday May 22, 2017 @10:40AM (#14393925)
If you're miserable in a marriage, just get a divorce. Why do people put themselves through that?
Re:Let employees work from home by wayn3 on Friday May 19, 2017 @02:41PM (#14378300)
I'm the first person to admit that if I was to run a company, I wouldn't allow people to work remotely only.

But as an employee, there's no way I'm going to drag my ass into an office ever again on a regular basis, when I can just as well work from exotic beachfront homes.

This is going to work out just like companies who cut compensation work out. You'll be left with the mediocre engineers and everyone who's able to choose to work remotely will eventually do so. If you don't permit that, you're left with the chaff.

Besides, isn't it kind of the managers job to help keep output in check? If my output was down I'd expect a friendly note telling me to quit slacking.

Re:Let employees work from home by pdimitar on Friday May 19, 2017 @04:10PM (#14378963)
> This is going to work out just like companies who cut compensation work out. You'll be left with the mediocre engineers and everyone who's able to choose to work remotely will eventually do so. If you don't permit that, you're left with the chaff.

This has to be the best comment in this thread.

I am observing this phenomena lately and I gotta say, I feel rather good about seeing the more backwards employers struggle already.

They really have no idea it's the programmer's market.

Re:Let employees work from home by wayn3 on Friday May 19, 2017 @04:20PM (#14379014)
I do mostly contract work.

I have a line item called "distress surcharge" that is charged to clients who want to bother me with being in the office. Effectively doubles my rate. Helps them quit being silly.

Re:Let employees work from home by pdimitar on Friday May 19, 2017 @04:29PM (#14379079)
I wish I could say "I'll definitely try that!", but (prepare for a slight off-tangent) I suffered through enough stress and burnout cycles in my life -- several times! -- that I can't even justify a double rate for my newly delivered suffering in fresh new customer office. Or so I think. Funny things happen to human morals and sentiments when a lot of money is involved. Maybe I should try it once and see how it goes, actually.

I am looking forward to start working with N customers on contract / consulting base but the transition is really hard. People keep treating me like a coding monkey whom they have to swindle for the lowest possible salary. Guess I have to change my LinkedIn profile dramatically, and make my own website as a start.

Bottom-line / on-topic: if you're willing to share lessons learned from your transition then you should know that you'd have a passionate and intentive listener (me).

Re:Let employees work from home by taysic on Friday May 19, 2017 @06:42PM (#14379887)
> I'm the first person to admit that if I was to run a company, I wouldn't allow people to work remotely only.

Why not? I work remotely and if I was to run a company I would hire remotely too. Given that I've coded myself I expect to know how long tasks should generally take. And I would want to give that benefit to my employees and attract talent as well.

Re:Let employees work from home by wayn3 on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:46AM (#14382595)
Thats not even a viable argument. You know how long things take. Assuming that thats true, what do you do about it? Something took significantly longer. What are you gonna do about it? Fire them?
Re:Let employees work from home by taysic on Saturday May 20, 2017 @09:20PM (#14385265)
Yes, if its a consistent problem with no good reason. Very viable.
Re:Let employees work from home by throwaway47861 on Friday May 19, 2017 @04:07PM (#14378942)
So your answer is micro-management and making people fake activity during the mandatory 8h? You're not a good manager if that's the case.

There are courses that teach people how to focus on results and deliverables.

Re:Let employees work from home by hfourm on Friday May 19, 2017 @04:44PM (#14379204)
Deadlines, deliverables, and results

Deadlines being flexible roadmap deadlines of course