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Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @06:37AM (#14374313)
That assessment, though, is based on an assumption that Swedish authorities would have complied with Swedish law. Part of Assanges fear of going to Sweden, whether justified or not, is presumably that Sweden had a history of letting Swedish police get away with blatantly violating Swedish law in support of US rendition. One could argue that this risk is not real in his case, but that is/was not relevant to whether or not it affected Assange's concern about which country seemed safer.

Part of that fear was presumably based in the unusual persistence of the Swedish prosecutor, which implied something odd was going on. But that "something odd" might simply have been the prosecutors ambitions.

In any case, UK courts have a history of taking extradition hearings very seriously, and there are ample opportunities to appeal both to UK courts, the ECHR, and (for the time being) to the ECJ, so it'd by no means be easy to get him from the UK direct.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by notahacker on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:07AM (#14374450)
If Assange truly feared the police blatantly violating Swedish law in support of rendition, then it would seem strange for him to base himself in Sweden, remain in the country whilst being well aware of the investigation under way against him and leave only on the day they notified him they'd received legal authorisation to detain him. And then repeat the whole thing in the UK...
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:38AM (#14374618)
They had closed the case, and notified him of that. Then a new prosecutor reopens the case and goes after him.

The point is that Sweden might very well have seemed perfectly safe despite those past actions until a prosecutor took those steps which still seems exceedingly odd.

To have one prosecutor say there was no case to answer, only to have another prosecutor specifically go after the case and reopen it, is uncommon to say the least.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by notahacker on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:54AM (#14374713)
(i)The case was very publicly reopened the week after it had been announced it was being dropped. I mean, it's not like headlines like this would have escaped Assange's notice http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rape-investig...

Assange spent 26 more days in the country and then flew out hours after his arrest warrant was signed.

(ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor overriding an earlier decision of a more junior prosecutor following an appeal from the alleged victims' lawyer and an interview with the accused. Especially when it's a one-party's word against another's case and the accusing party had initially seemed reluctant to pursue a prosecution.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by gribbly on Friday May 19, 2017 @12:48PM (#14377366)
>Assange spent 26 more days in the country and then flew out hours after his arrest warrant was signed.

You are spreading many falsehoods here, first of all, it was NOT a junior prosecutor who dropped the case, chief prosectutor Eva Finné was the one who first handled it and immediately dropped it due to there not being any grounds for a case.

It was a junior prosector Karin Rosander who then suddenly brought the case up again, at this point (20/10 2010) Assange WAS questioned by the police.

The day after this, senior prosecutor Marianne Ny decided to restart the preliminary investigation.

At this point Assange left the country, three weeks later, Marianne Ny filed an arrest warrant on Assange for further questioning.

Assange agreed to be interviewed by video link, something Swedish prosecutors have done many times before, by Marianne Ny refused and demanded that he'd return to sweden for further questioning.

This for accusations which even well known feminists working daily against rape say are laughable:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-rape...

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by draugadrotten on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:05AM (#14374784)
> ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor overriding an earlier decision of a more junior prosecutor

The prosecutor who dismissed the case was senior, and not junior in any sense of the word, rank or age.

You say it's not unusual (in Sweden). I've never seen a single example of another rape case which was dismissed and reopened in this manner. Can you give a few examples of other re-opened Swedish rape cases, seeing that it's "not unusual" from your point of view.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by bjourne on Friday May 19, 2017 @01:57PM (#14377956)
> > ii) there's nothing particularly unusual about a more senior prosecutor overriding an earlier decision of a more junior prosecutor

> The prosecutor who dismissed the case was senior, and not junior in any sense of the word, rank or age.

Marianne Ny was Överåklagare and she was senior to Eva Finnè who had the title Chefsåklagare. According to her, she reopened the case because new relevant information had become available.

> Can you give a few examples of other re-opened Swedish rape cases, seeing that it's "not unusual" from your point of view.

It's rare but it happens: http://www.nsd.se/nyheter/forundersokning-om-valdtakt-aterup... https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/forundersokning-om-va... http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artik...

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by Tomte on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:24AM (#14374896)
How many Swedish rape cases have you examined?

Because I have seen only one reopened, but I happen to know about exactly one, so I wouldn't presume to talk about it's irregularity.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:19AM (#14374866)
The point being that initially it seemed safe to stay - that this case would go away and was genuinely just about those allegations. Then the longer it went on, the more unusual the case seemed.

Whether or not it was unusual enough to justify Assanges fears is irrelevant. The question is whether or not they were enough to cause him to start fearing something else was going on.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by Avalyst on Saturday May 20, 2017 @07:21AM (#14381891)
But if he's worried about the Swedish police violating Swedish law, why would he care about whether or not the case is closed? If the CIA/Swedish police were to snatch him, in blatant violation of a number of laws, it's not like they would hold back just because some rape charges were dropped?
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by rmc on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:12AM (#14374819)
It's also very strange that, if he was really afraid of the US & NATO, he'd flee to the UK. Sweden is not in NATO, and the UK co-founded it. The UK and the US have a long standing "special relationship", with the UK being the main other country involved in invading Iraq. If you're afraid of the US, why you'd go to the UK is beyond me.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:38AM (#14374991)
First of all where does NATO come from here? Why would he fear NATO? It sounds to me like you just added that in because it's something that puts the UK in the same group as the US.

Where would you suggest he should go?

UK courts have a long history of letting extradition cases take years and/or denying extradition, and UK courts have a history of reacting to political pressure by standing firm rather than yielding. There are few places where I'd trust the legal system more.

Which other countries do you think have courts willing to stand up to political pressure, and where the US can't or won't just pick him off the streets without causing a major diplomatic crisis, and that would be somewhere you'd be able to get visas and where you'd want to live?

I can't think of many countries that'd fit those criterias. Most of the places I can think of where I'd believe the US would be unlikely to be able to get at someone are places I'd rather not want to live.

But the UK would be high on my list of places where I'd feel the risk would be low.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by rmc on Monday May 22, 2017 @03:44AM (#14391730)
> where does NATO come from here?

I have heard people say things like "Sweden has co-operated with NATO in [....]". Maybe Sweden does co-operate with NATO, but it's not a member and the UK is.

The UK courts might seem wonderful in merry old England, but just look at what happened in Northern Ireland, and you'll see a different face of the British legal system. Interment without trial, torture, extrajudicial killing, all of UK citizens on UK soil.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by lenkite on Friday May 19, 2017 @01:23PM (#14377688)
It's actually tough to extradite from the UK. Lots of corrupt Indian businessmen go to the UK when they wish to flee our taxmen. And then mock us in the British papers and TV.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by praneshp on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:10PM (#14379380)
India != US. My bet is that UK would fall over themselves if the US demanded a corrupt businessman or a "high value target" like Assange.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Saturday May 20, 2017 @03:44PM (#14383996)
Here is Theresa May, current UK PM, denying extradition of Gary McKinnon, after years of hearings, wanted for one of the largest hacks of US military networks of all time:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/16/world/europe/uk-us-mckinnon-ex...

The UK has a history of both courts and the Home Office denying extraditions. Theresa May is a "law and order" authoritarian to boot, but even she is not prepared to fall over herself to satisfy US extradition requests.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by PJDK on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:30AM (#14374574)
And not to mention that fear when arguing against his extradition in a UK court.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by kristianc on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:53AM (#14374712)
> Part of that fear was presumably based in the unusual persistence of the Swedish prosecutor, which implied something odd was going on. But that "something odd" might simply have been the prosecutors ambitions.

The law is the law, and Assange stood accused of a serious crime in Sweden. The idea that Sweden would simply forget about it because Assange had holed himself up in an embassy for five years seems misplaced.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:40AM (#14375003)
With the "unusual persistence" I was not referring to keeping the case open, but with e.g. continuing to refuse not to interview him for four years for no good reason, while giving reasons that she eventually proved were false by finally agreeing to do it anyway.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by ptaipale on Friday May 19, 2017 @09:08AM (#14375209)
You ignore the procedural limitations imposed by Swedish law. The law is a perfectly "good reason" for authorities to act the way they did.

It is a rather common meme to accuse Swedes of not conforming to concepts of British/U.S. law (common law system) when Swedish has another system, not any worse but somewhat different in the usage of terms like "charge".

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @11:08AM (#14376397)
Which procedural limitations? The ones Ny proved doesn't exist when she finally after four years interviewed him in London after all?

I'm not expected Sweden to be like the UK/US - I'm Norwegian, and our system is much closer to the Swedish and to the UK/US systems.

I am expecting a prosecutor to not stubbornly refuse to take actions for fours years while claiming it to be impossible, while being contradicted by legal experts, just to suddenly decide it's possible after all.

If that's too much to ask of Swedish prosectors, you have a big problem with your legal justice system.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by Bartweiss on Friday May 19, 2017 @09:48AM (#14375568)
> You ignore the procedural limitations imposed by Swedish law.

Can you clarify this? I'm honestly confused - the topic seems to be the refusal and then acceptance of an in-embassy interview. I could understand if the refusal was a procedural issue, but in that case why was it eventually accepted?

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by k1m on Friday May 19, 2017 @10:43AM (#14376086)
Exactly. Sweden was clearly trying to say the in-embassy interview was out of the question, against Swedish law. Then completely backtracked and went ahead with it anyway. Doesn't inspire much confidence. Perhaps the UN ruling against Sweden was the what pushed them to do it.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by matt4077 on Friday May 19, 2017 @06:49AM (#14374375)
It doesn't have to be "the prosecutor's ambition"–it's just an unwillingness to let someone skip a trial just by fleeing, and the precedent it would set.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @07:41AM (#14374635)
That does not explain the highly unusual step of overruling another prosecutors decision that there was no case to answer, the illegal release of information to the press, nor the insistence not to interview him in the UK - something she kept up for four years before finally accepting that there is no legal basis preventing her from doing so (one of the excuses used), and finally interviewing him last year.
Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by rmc on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:10AM (#14374810)
Whereas the UK has a history of colluding with terrorists to murder politically annoying human rights lawyers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Finucane ) and oppressing an ethnic minority (the whole of The Troubles in Nothern Ireland). There's a reason "People in NI should have direct access to the ECHR" (as opposed to going through UK courts) was a part of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement when brought peace to NI.

UK is hardly a bastion of freedom and liberty.

Re:Sweden drops Julian Assange rape investigation by vidarh on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:44AM (#14375039)
I did not imply anywhere that the UK is a bastion of freedom and liberty. For starters I don't personally consider the UK a democracy at all because of the electoral system, and I do agree with you there were certainly plenty of abuses related to Northern Ireland.

But the question here is where Assange would have reason to feel safer in the UK than in Sweden, and just like many other places through history, a place can both be incredibly safe for one group of people and unsafe for other groups of people at the same time.