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Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by ianai on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:05PM (#14370098)
I, for one, vote for the mesh network.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by guelo on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:27PM (#14370301)
The lag time, and probably bandwidth, on a mesh, especially a wifi one, makes it unacceptable for many uses.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by orthecreedence on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:39PM (#14370391)
This is what I figured as well, but I also wonder if that's just because the devices we use haven't been built for this.

In other words, if public interest shifted to some kind of mesh network, perhaps the devices could be improved enough to support the load.

That said, I don't know much about mesh networking at all, the routing methods it uses, or if it's even possible to support what I'm talking about.

It also has to contend with the existing, established infrastructure so probably won't see many large investments any time soon.

I still think it would be a decent alternative to what we have now if it could overcome bandwidth/latency limitations.

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by russdpale on Thursday May 18, 2017 @11:15PM (#14372787)
Yep, but its all we are going to be left with.

Of course, at first it will suck, and it will be limited to neighborhood meshes.. from there perhaps it can start to branch out and connect to other neighborhoods, then city to city, until we finally have a decent internet.

Its going to be up to the web development community in its entirety- front and back end- to make the push, by showing neighborhoods that mesh nets are worth the investment.

Perhaps though, this is what we need to get a true internet. I'm curious as to how Berners-Lee and company would have redone it, perhaps they will have their chance.

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by ianai on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:33PM (#14370346)
That sounds like an implementation-bound constraint. Many technologies start out unacceptable for certain uses and mature to competency.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by sp332 on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:54PM (#14370535)
Adding lots of hops is going to slow down the connection. That's a limitation of the speed of light.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by progval on Thursday May 18, 2017 @05:28PM (#14371244)
On the other end, with a mesh network, your packets are less likely to go through the whole state/continent to reach a node in the same town as you.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by justifier on Thursday May 18, 2017 @08:15PM (#14372116)
How does a mesh network cross oceans?
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by dredmorbius on Thursday May 18, 2017 @11:02PM (#14372740)
In stationwagons....

More seriously, back in the old days:

... the Usenet link to Australia was a daily batch of tapes flown by 747. High bandwidth, but long ping times.

One of the first publicly-accessible network links between the US and Europe ... was a 9600 BAUD line.

I'd cite both of these in more detail, but the book is buried somewhere in archives presently. A late 1980s / early 1990s (just prior to the dawn of the public Internet) item.

More generally, though, to address your question, oceans aren't the problem. We've got ocean links.

It's the last mile, between you and the local on-ramp. That's where Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, and TWC have their monopolies, which need breaking up.

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by dredmorbius on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:54AM (#14374142)
Seeing if I can't find the citation at least. Not sure if it's turned up, though several contemporary accounts are interesting in retrospect.

I'm wondering if Egypt has reconsidered its actions...

http://www.worldcat.org/title/introducing-internet-to-egypt-...

It might be John McConnell's Internetworking computer systems : interconnecting networks and systems (1988):

http://www.worldcat.org/title/internetworking-computer-syste...

Prentice Hall seems right for the publisher, though I'm not positive on the title. Date seems a year or three early.

Possibly John Quartman's The Matrix, 1990, which sounds closer to the right date:

https://www.amazon.com/Matrix-Computer-Networks-Conferencing...

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by dredmorbius on Friday May 19, 2017 @10:08PM (#14380676)
Erm, "John Quarterman" on that last. And I'm almost positive that's it.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by ianai on Friday May 19, 2017 @02:54AM (#14373482)
I'm thinking solar powered (with batteries) WAP/repeater polls. That's definitely a capital outlay, still. But it might be more serviceable/financeable at a local level.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by dredmorbius on Friday May 19, 2017 @05:08AM (#14373940)
Quite honestly, cable (solid 19th century proven tech), or satellites (low-orbiting swarms) would be far less problematic.

You might be able to cross the Baring Strait with a LOS microwave relay -- there's a somewhat fanciful video which explores the possibility of driving from Tierra del Fuego to London. It's only really hard in a few areas, one of the more problematic being Guatemal.

Conceptually, tunnelling or bridging (my option would be the former) the Straight is within reason (51 km, compare the Gotthard Base tunnel at 35.5 km). It's creating all-season driveable roads (or trainable tracks) across Alaska and Siberia which are the more formidable challenges.

But for the Atlantic? Cable. Seriously.

And the Lima - Sydney tunnel is going to take a while to dig.

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by ianai on Friday May 19, 2017 @12:47PM (#14377355)
I meant at the last mile. I could see a mesh network first taking off in a city/neighborhood.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by dredmorbius on Friday May 19, 2017 @06:06PM (#14379694)
Oh yes, that makes far more sense, sorry.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by Qwertystop on Thursday May 18, 2017 @10:52PM (#14372710)
You end up with bottlenecks. Packets on a mesh will try for the best route - if there's only one big cable across the ocean, everything that needs to cross takes it. Same situation we've got now, for oceans.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by justifier on Thursday May 18, 2017 @11:17PM (#14372795)
but how does that decentralise the system?

a central body will need to maintain those lines and would be critical to the mesh

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by ianai on Friday May 19, 2017 @02:50AM (#14373466)
I'm thinking at some point the mesh network abstracts over the current internet. An abstraction that has crossed an entire continent can probably afford a non-crap service line.
Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by AstralStorm on Thursday May 18, 2017 @10:44PM (#14372686)
Via long hops, just like the rest of the Internet.

Either fibre, satellite or old radio relay.

Re:One Step Closer to a Closed Internet by justifier on Thursday May 18, 2017 @11:16PM (#14372789)
how do you decentralise fibre, satellite or radio relay?